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Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

645 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/04/2021 23:27

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP posts:
LemonRoses · 14/04/2021 21:18

I think it’s wrong to assume every women over a certain age is incompetent. There is huge variability, as at every age. Different people have different skills and talents.
I can remove an old and plumb in a new dishwasher. My future son in law can’t.
I can make a very good Wellington, but my husband can’t.
My mother in law is eighty-six and perfectly financially literate. Her husband less so. Both are very IT competent, shop online, bank online, use zoom etc.
My ninety year old neighbour speaks fluent Spanish and sells his watercolours. I am no artist and have very limited Spanish.

We’re all different. That’s a good thing.

saraclara · 14/04/2021 22:01

I think it’s wrong to assume every women over a certain age is incompetent.

Has anyone done that?

SazCat · 14/04/2021 22:27

Lloyd's bank were great when my DF died. He didn't leave a will, but they only requested to speak to my DM briefly to get her verbal permission for me to deal with them and I had to email the death cert, then they let me sort everything over the phone.

Took his name off the joint, moved money he had in a sole account over no probs.

SkaterGrrrrl · 14/04/2021 23:03

Can I say I have been in this situation and was delighted to discover many branches of Age UK offer computer lessons to older people. They are patient and experienced at teaching senior beginners. Life saver.

mathanxiety · 15/04/2021 02:53

Bobbiebigbum

It sounds like excessive specialisation over time and not a gender thing

When you look at the typical division of labour you can see that it is indeed a gender thing. Women do the dogsbody work around the home and men do all the dealing with the Big Important World. Women in effect support the men in their dealings with the world.

It is the personification of the dynamic envisioned in the legal concept of chattel, where a wife's legal identity was subsumed into the husband's.

b1990 · 15/04/2021 08:45

I can see similarities with my DParents and DPil, and while OH and i don't want to pry or meddle, we do want to help them get up to speed on this kind of thing

Thankfully all DP and DPIL still around - but this thread has got me thinking that it might be useful to work with DP/PIL about getting up to speed, and with all 4 of them so that their skills are more balanced as there is a tendancy for both to leave things to 1 or the other if it makes them nervous - ie online stuff.

Are there courses / meetings which help with tech stuff and explain online banking? Age UK or something?

What sites are useful for reliably finding tradespeople?
Any good templates for discussing a budget with them so they know what's needed each month?
Set up a password manager?

What else would be useful?

Nith · 15/04/2021 08:46

My mother has been technology averse all her life. She used to treat most machinery as if she thought it would bite her, and we were the last family I knew to get a washing machine. I always thought it was a real pity she wouldn't contemplate using a computer, she'd have utterly loved social media and snooping around things like RightMove.

RampantIvy · 15/04/2021 09:29

What sites are useful for reliably finding tradespeople?

Sorry to say it, but Facebook local pages are brilliant for this. I have found the last few tradespeople in this way, and they have all been reliable. You don't need a full Facebook profile - you can even create a Facebook account under another name if you want, but local Facebook pages are such a useful resource. Not just for finding tradespeople, but for finding out about local services and amenities, what events are happening in the area, traffic news, all sorts really.

Most small businesses advertise on Facebook because it is so easy to update a Facebook page quickly.

user1497207191 · 15/04/2021 10:00

@RampantIvy

What sites are useful for reliably finding tradespeople?

Sorry to say it, but Facebook local pages are brilliant for this. I have found the last few tradespeople in this way, and they have all been reliable. You don't need a full Facebook profile - you can even create a Facebook account under another name if you want, but local Facebook pages are such a useful resource. Not just for finding tradespeople, but for finding out about local services and amenities, what events are happening in the area, traffic news, all sorts really.

Most small businesses advertise on Facebook because it is so easy to update a Facebook page quickly.

I've found the opposite. I've used a couple of well "liked" people from Facebook who've turned out to be complete con merchants. Likewise my sister used a "like" facebook carpet fitter who did a botched job. At least with Facebook, you can upload photos of the crap work done to warn others (until they block you)!
user1497207191 · 15/04/2021 10:01

What sites are useful for reliably finding tradespeople?

But younger people and men also have that problem, so it's pretty irrelevant to this thread which is discussing older women!

Gwenhwyfar · 15/04/2021 12:31

@mathanxiety

Bobbiebigbum

It sounds like excessive specialisation over time and not a gender thing

When you look at the typical division of labour you can see that it is indeed a gender thing. Women do the dogsbody work around the home and men do all the dealing with the Big Important World. Women in effect support the men in their dealings with the world.

It is the personification of the dynamic envisioned in the legal concept of chattel, where a wife's legal identity was subsumed into the husband's.

Isn't real-life recommendations a better way of finding tradespeople?
Blueeyedgirl21 · 15/04/2021 12:53

My mil is only early 70s but she can’t even pause the tv to write down the name of something on an advert she wants to buy. She asks dp to either find it from a long winded description or we have to pop round and when the advert comes on she will ask us to pause it so she can write it down.

In her case though I believe it is learned helplessness. If she HAD to do things she would cope. She’s good at a few things like ironing and knitting which I’m crap at so she has got dexterity. She’s only ever worked part time for her 30s then stopped working so I think the lack of responsibility for things outside of her every day life for years has made her world shrink and therefore she is afraid of new things, she still asks if we will get the video player down for her so she can watch videos she has, of films that are on Netflix (just press the Netflix button on the remote and search for the film) -its easier than getting the video player out, but because it’s ‘new’ she doesn’t like it.

My mum is about 8 years younger and a full time medical professional and seems so much more capable, but I think it’s only because she has always worked and had to stay sharp

DishingOutDone · 15/04/2021 15:08

After commenting on this thread earlier I had a long think last night and wasn’t happy with my conclusion- if I died H wouldn’t even know how to pay a bill let alone know how to get the money together for it. I’m about to go into hospital so much as I resent being the one to shoulder all the responsibilities even if I was fucking dead, I will have to lay put all the bills on a spreadsheet and give him access to my savings to pay them, just n case. Bugger. Still, a very timely thread for me.

mathanxiety · 15/04/2021 15:20

Gwyn - if you're living on another continent and your sister lives in a rented flat in a nearby city, getting recommendations for handymen for your mother isn't going to happen. The internet is your friend.

My mother won't ask neighbours for recommendations for handymen herself because she 'doesnt want people knowing her business'. Plus, covid has put a damper on the usual chatting amongst neighbours.

What has your question to do with the post you quoted?

Woodpecker22 · 15/04/2021 15:39

My DH who is in his 40s has zero life admin skills and I do all of this on his behalf. I think his has ADHD which does not help. I don't think this issue is linked to age or gender.

My parents who are in their 60s/70s have very defined roles and would both struggle if the other was not there.

bunnytheegghunter · 15/04/2021 15:43

My mother is useless with all that stuff, she was divorced from my dad and lived in a flat where her rent included the bills, when she moved she had no idea what to do or how to organise anything. She still gets me to arrange insurances or sort out anything that involves a phone call or email, I even had to get her a bus pass 7 years after she was actually entitled to it as she wouldn't fill out the application forms I got for her Hmmshe is only in her 60's but she didn't even have a clue in her 40's!

KisstheTeapot14 · 15/04/2021 16:39

@WombatChocolate

www.directline.com/home-cover/magazine/what-is-a-stopcock

All we need to know about a Stopcock in 1 minute flat - a short and useful film.

I know where mine is - behind the bloody washing machine.

Good luck with me shifting that beast if we ever sprung a leak requiring water shut off.

I am going to get DH to show me what to flick in terms of the switches for the fuse box if the electric trips out.

WombatChocolate · 15/04/2021 16:44

Kiss the teapot, thanks for the stopcock clip. It will help me avoid becoming one of these people who can’t do basic tasks. Yes, I need to ask my DH to show me about the fuse box and what you have to do too...assuming he knows. Lots of these jobs are not things to learn are they when you’re younger and there’s someone around to show you and you can se the value of learning them.

Sadly, many women on MN will one day be widows or living alone later in life. We should make sure we can do the basic tasks. This thread also makes me more determined to keep up with technology rather than resisting and finding myself cut -off because of it. My natural state isn’t to be at the forefront of new developments and I don’t think that’s going to change, but I don’t have to be at the back either.

Etulosba · 15/04/2021 16:50

I'm pleased to say that my mother (early 80s) is quite competent as far as life admin skills are concerned. She has to be, she's a widow.

Modern technology doesn't seem to phase her. She is computer literate and an avid iphone user. She is currently project managing the renovations to her house.

Roadtohades · 17/04/2021 08:42

Useful page to bookmark if you have parents or a partner who might die before you: www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/what-to-do-when-someone-dies/
I am hopeful that one positive outcome of Covid restrictions is that many older people have been impelled to take up technology in order to be able to keep in contact with their families over Zoom etc, and to keep in contact with the world via the Internet. But maybe not, judging from the many stories of parents who are, as one poster said, 'passengers in their own lives'. I do agree that helplessness in the face of technology, driving, etc, is very largely gender-based, even if a minority of older women are competent and coping. It's largely about confidence and self-belief and many women have that steadily had that eroded over their lives.

ancientgran · 17/04/2021 17:37

@Etulosba

I'm pleased to say that my mother (early 80s) is quite competent as far as life admin skills are concerned. She has to be, she's a widow.

Modern technology doesn't seem to phase her. She is computer literate and an avid iphone user. She is currently project managing the renovations to her house.

My husband, mid 70s, enjoys it when a sales person in computer/tech places tries to patronise him. He runs rings round them until they give up. I've had to walk away as I see them trying to blag their way on something they clearly don't understand, despite being young as it gets painful.

I run a nice little online business at almost 70 and do admin for a local care home, online throughout lockdown.

My funny story about women doing things people don't expect is when I was a young mum in the 70s and my car was an old banger. It would frequently refuse to start and I'd open the bonnet, tap something that a mechanic had told me to tap. If I left the bonnet up and got into the car and started it all was well and I'd get out and close the bonnet. If I dared to close the bonnet it wouldn't start so I soon gave that up.

One day an elderly woman watched this performance and when I got out of the car after starting it to close the bonnet she walked over and in a quite choked voice said, "Young women like you make me proud." I thanked her and left. Little did she realise I wasn't a mechanical whizz and didn't even know the name of the thing I was tapping.

bigbadbedknobs · 21/04/2021 11:21

I knew women my sort of age who were discouraged from learning to drive by their husbands, wouldn't sit beside them to do practice, at all, said if they learned they wouldn't be allowed to drive husband's vehicle, so there was a huge mountain to climb, they found it hard to afford lessons on their own resources. I've known women of my mother's generation who had not been allowed to learn to drive, not just had it made difficult for them to do so. They couldn't have bought a car on finance as you needed your husband to do it, seems abusive these days. My mother learned to drive in the military, a bit like the queen, before she was married.
Your income went on your husband's tax return, and if you were due a repayment that couldn't be dealt with on PAYE he got it until surprisingly recently.

Men can be pretty clueless, I taught my then-husband to drive, he had a few lessons to prepare for the test, and he refused to do any life admin when he was married to me, so he had to learn it all after he buggered off, that was his choice.

Made sure both my daughter and my son learned to drive

DadOnIce · 21/04/2021 11:43

I don't think OP is being judgemental. She just sounds frustrated and puzzled and wants to help.

It is unusual for someone of 70 not to have any of these skills. Her MIL would only have been in her 40s when email and the Internet first started to be used in schools in the 1990s, and it would have been difficult to avoid as a teacher.

MegaClutterSlut · 21/04/2021 13:12

Haven't RTFT but my fil used to handle bills, bank accounts, mots etc then he passed. Mil didn't have a clue about anything. Luckily fil had all passwords written down for everything so sil and dh deal with a lot of things now as mil is not confident doing things online

nitsandwormsdodger · 21/04/2021 13:18

Be kind
she is grieving

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