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Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

645 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/04/2021 23:27

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP posts:
LovingBob · 14/04/2021 09:48

It's a lot more difficult nowadays as it is all online so the one not doing any of it wouldn't have a clue, everything is under a password, at least in the old days there was paperwork to refer to. Some might not know who the bills are with or what bank accounts are there.

SonicStars · 14/04/2021 09:49

Swap the roles over and you have exactly the situation my FIL was in when his wife died last year.

Different people have different roles in a partnership.
She will be able to go on holiday again when we're back in that world. She'll do it.

BML123 · 14/04/2021 09:55

Mother is 67 going through divorce and in exactly the same situation. She has no grasp of how much anything costs, cannot pay a bill etc

MintyMabel · 14/04/2021 09:57

As OP says, she must have had to use IT and emails for work purposes

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. I entered the office workforce in the late 1990s. There were maybe two computers in an office of ten people.

It wasn’t until my third job in 2000 that we had individual computers and our own email address. Things moved quickly from there, but you don’t have to go too far back to remember an IT-less office. It’s not incredible to assume those hitting their 70s wouldn’t have used IT/emails at work.

@Nith

Candyfloss99 · 14/04/2021 09:59

I think this is quite rare, especially if she is 70. My DM who is 71 knows how to do everything and anything.

GrolliffetheDragon · 14/04/2021 09:59

I remember reading letters on problem pages where the husband had died and the wife didn't know how to pay bills etc. I obviously took it to heart because I do all that and when I was ill in hospital a few years back and pumped full of morphine I was incoherently trying to tell DH all the passwords and logins for everything in case I died...

NotMeNoNo · 14/04/2021 09:59

@Micah

I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were

In my line of work (dv) joint emails, social media etc is a red flag for abuse as it means one of them won’t allow communication they can’t read.

Just for info.

This is really common in older couples though. My PILs in their 80s have this set up.

OP it looks like we've concluded - that yes this kind of non - admin is quite common but the bereavement may be making things worse.
I don't feel like 70 is that old - most of us will be working to well past 65, that's the alarming thing.

Wtfdidwedo · 14/04/2021 10:00

If I died my husband wouldn't have much of clue where to find anything or what to do. I do think it's more of a relationship dynamic thing. He can use technology because we're younger so had IT lessons at school and uses a computer at work. He would probably be able to remember my passwords to try to access accounts though.

OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 14/04/2021 10:00

I think it's surprising she's not a bit more clued up if she worked as a teacher until 10 years or so ago, although I think technology is one of those things that if you don't keep up then quite quickly it's all beyond you, but I can't believe she worked as a teacher 10 years ago and never had to write an email?
The rest of it, well, if she simply never had to do it I can understand why it's beyond her now.
My MIL is older and lived/lives in a country where that generation were often more old fashioned. She always had a very traditional role, so she could shop and cook and clean but had no idea at all about money and modern life really.
Keep an eye out for dementia too though.

Frequentflier · 14/04/2021 10:04

My mom is a 76 year old Indian woman from the days when Indian women were not highly educated and did not work. Before my dad passed, he taught her all things financial. Before I left India to come to the UK, I taught her all things digital. Needs must, as they say. She now knows everything about everything and runs her entire house on her own: email, digital, finances, taxes, everything.

I am truly so proud of her. This helplessness can be changed.

silverbubbles · 14/04/2021 10:05

I think there are perhaps quite a few of that generation who are very much a team with the husband. Acting as one unit and splitting responsibilities. She was probably the house wife and he was in charge of all the 'very difficult' admin. 'Pink jobs and blue jobs spring to mind'.

It's lovely that they had such a happy partnership but another reminder that it is not helpful to make oneself so dependant on another person.

SazCat · 14/04/2021 10:08

My DM is very much dependent on us since my DF died last April. We don't mind but it can get a bit frustrating, I do try and encourage her to be a bit more independent but my DH reminds me that she will still be grieving and being alone after so long is a big shock.

She's only 67 tho and I feel if she could pop into town on the bus (she doesn't drive and lives in a small village) or start a hobby she'd be so much happier!

She has never used a computer or mobile phone and has absolutely no interest in learning so I set up direct debits for bills and I keep an eye on her online banking. All tradespeople we have to organise, I make any phonecalls to organise anything.

She does struggle with her memory so we have got potential dementia in the back of our minds. But she's never really done any life admin so that's not a new thing. I just can't imagine being like that, but maybe it's a generation thing and will be less common in the future?

StillRailing · 14/04/2021 10:11

I think it's part of the readjustment when you lose a life partner who took on certain roles.
Ime it is not related to make or female but it's individual to the couple.

Frequentflier · 14/04/2021 10:12

I honestly find this "I can't do life admin thing" so strange. People in less developed countries who don't even speak English learn how to use computers and smart phones. It's extremely dangerous to be reliant on one person, especially in these times.

Anonforthis234 · 14/04/2021 10:13

Sorry, I haven't rtft, but I wanted to chime in with my experience--I am largely the same as your DMIL! I am only early 50s, but I find things like tax, utilities, anything formal, very worrying. I can understand that many relatives on here can buy things on Amazon Prime or purchase wool because the stakes are relatively low. With "official" things, it's not that simple.

He's not abusive, I know he would like it if I did more things, but the handover would be exceedingly painfulthink having your husband teach you how to driveand we both recognise this. I do worry about what if he diesI have asked him to put passwords, etc., in a folderbut he doesn't think it's safe. @Ohgodthat’sme I see exactly what you mean! @lemonsyellow I feel the same way! I think I may also have some form of dyscalculia/adhd? It really is hard for me to remember systems/numbers, etc. I wish there was a service where someone would come into your home, say, "you need to do x, y, and z," organise it all, and write it all down! I'm not averse to doing it if I can be sure I'll do it right, but the learning how, and the being afraid I'll do it wrong and cost me/us thousands of pounds is terrifying!

I laughed when I read about the woman who can't turn on the heating! I am the same because my husband (very techy) has switched it over to Nest, and for some reason (we've tried) it just doesn't work with my phone. Small things like this--that he's done for safety and convenience (to him) add up to me not being able to contribute in this area.

Freshprincess · 14/04/2021 10:14

They found a dynamic which worked for them and stuck with it.

If it had been the other way round you may have been teaching your FIL how to use the washing machine, how to iron, he might not know any phone numbers of friends if MIL did all the socialising.

My mum is a bit older and could cope with all that. She was a computer refusenik for a long time, but she did a course at the old people’s centre she volunteers at, and now she’s fine.

Pinkandwhiteblossom · 14/04/2021 10:16

I agree with the people saying this is an individual thing and not generational or sex-based. Largely because you’re also describing DH. He has a senior role in a big company and a large team. I only say that to demonstrate that he’s clearly very capable. He is USELESS at anything domestic. I genuinely worry about what would happen to the admin of his and the children’s lives should anything happen to me. But then I remember that he would step up as he would have no other choice. Give her time OP - but I agree with you that she now has to find self-sufficiency

Piglet89 · 14/04/2021 10:16

@Flippyferloppy but it’s the tone of the OP that makes it really dismissive and unsympathetic of her MIL. For example, this really stood out:

Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

This is totally unnecessary, really quite unpleasant (and, as far as I can see, unsubstantiated) conjecture about a woman who’s clearly really struggling to cope at the moment after a major shock.

pointyshoes · 14/04/2021 10:17

I’m not sure it’s an age thing, more a personality trait. My DM is 89 and widowed. She went straight from living at home to marrying my father and living with him. He dealt with all finances, and she was a traditional housewife. She doesn’t use the internet (paranoid about being scammed) but deals with all her finances. It was a huge learning curve for her but she was determined to be independent for as long as she can. I think some widows just aren’t interested, and if someone else will do it for them, they’re happy. But I think they can be gently “taught” to manage their own life admin, starting with easier stuff (arranging MOT etc) , if someone else can spare the time to just keep an eye on them

ancientgran · 14/04/2021 10:17

@Frequentflier

I honestly find this "I can't do life admin thing" so strange. People in less developed countries who don't even speak English learn how to use computers and smart phones. It's extremely dangerous to be reliant on one person, especially in these times.
Wow how amazing that people who can't speak English can actually use a computer or a phone.
Frequentflier · 14/04/2021 10:20

You have missed my point @ancientgran at least in my home country, India, which has 16 official languages, all instructions are in English. Hence my mother-in-law, who only reads Bengali, can;t manage a computer easily because there is no Bengali software available to her.

Shedbuilder · 14/04/2021 10:20

I've encountered several older couples like this. I think the key is in the 'totally besotted for 40 years' description. I think it's about personalities and the relationship dynamic. The relationship is like that because one or other of the couple manages things on their own and it suits the other one to be passive. I think it can be abusive but often it's just a kind of sexist assumption that cooking and cleaning are her areas of responsibility and money and admin are his. I suspect that in these kind of relationships the cognitive abilities of the passive partner often decline: the success of the relationship depends on the passive one not being curious, not wanting to do things, not wanting to break out of their box and thus disturb the power balance.

Earlier this year I went look after an 84-year-old woman who was recently out of hospital after an operation. She was widowed 30 years ago and she ordered from Deliveroo for us on her iPad, was Zooming friends in the US and was in total command of bill-paying and supermarket deliveries, all online. In fact she taught me a few things I didn't know about using an iPad.

Those of us who do everything online need to remember that someone in their 70s spent the first 45 years of their lives without the internet and computers. It's really only in the last 15 years that everything has been online — and even now, OP, your MIL can walk into a travel agent and have someone book a holiday for her. There is life beyond the internet.

LovingBob · 14/04/2021 10:20

We have Hive and Ring and DH has no interest in having them on his phone.

StillRailing · 14/04/2021 10:23

My mum doesn't use the internet but is in control of her life admin. She was out posting her census return a few weeks ago.

I'm resigned to the non internet thing now and appreciate that she has reasons to get out and on the bus, which helps her cognitively I'm sure.

Squashbanana125 · 14/04/2021 10:26

Don’t know why you getting such harsh replies OP

Mine are the same. Early 70’s infact both of them to a degree. Dad does the bank account. However no internet banking, neither use the internet. Infact I don’t think they have WiFi at home. Never even switched a computer on.
Dad just about does his car insurance, house insurance. However as soon as he gets a renewal letter he’s asks me or my sister to find him the best deal. He has no email address. I can’t imagine being like this. But they are only early 70’s. Mum never worked always looked after us.

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