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Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

645 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/04/2021 23:27

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP posts:
ljeg395nn · 14/04/2021 09:07

My PIL are like that. FIL is not in good health but MIL literally doesnt know, doesnt want to know anything about life admin. They seem to have 1000s of bank accounts, dont seem to know how much money is coming in or what anything is. She definitely cant operate a computer or handle anything really. Seeing as FIL is still alive, it's not grief but I do fear for what happens if FIL goes before her. She is only 71 but hasnt had a job in 40years - and has focused on raising the kids, cooking, cleaning etc.

On the other hand, for my parents' it;s the opposite. My dad wouldnt know anything about the house - and he worked in a research lab until last year. But hasnt got a clue about online banking, online shopping or anything really, but can run a house. My mother would just order nice food from Waitrose and hire help if she ends up on her own - anything in the house is totally beyond her. They are both 70.

PaperMonster · 14/04/2021 09:07

I don’t think it’s common for older women to be like that. My own mum is 78 and digitally literate and has friends of a similar age who are equally so. She manages all the finances and did my dad’s accounts for his business.

trilbydoll · 14/04/2021 09:07

When DH's GF died it became apparent how much he did around the house and admin type stuff (although his GM did at least keep a cashbook so she knew the finances) for weeks afterwards she kept finding notes he had left around the house regarding how stuff worked, who to phone if it broke, when it needed doing etc.

My BIL can't/won't cook and he's in his 30s. I don't know if he is going to make more effort when they have dc or if he's destined to starve if my sister goes first!

SirVixofVixHall · 14/04/2021 09:07

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

It doesn’t sound like financial abuse on the part of your FIL, *@ElphabaTheGreen* - quite the opposite. It sounds like he cared for her so well she never needed to learn how to do these things. If this is the case, I can understand why she is struggling so much at the moment - not only has she lost her soulmate, but she has been pitchforked into a complex and difficult situation where she is facing a mountain of different things to do, to organise, to understand.

Had she had to do one of these jobs on its own, without the upset of bereavement, she may well have grasped things better than she did - but she had so much to cope with all at once, and it was too much for her.

I agree with this. I am in my fifties and a practical person, but DH and I have various things that we each do. I think it is fairly common in relationships that last many decades for each person to do specific tasks. I think you are totally underestimating what grief and shock do to a person, the first year or two can be like a fog, it is hard, sometimes impossible, to process information. Your MIl will gradually learn to do more of these things for herself but it does take time. As she has never done any of this it must feel overwhelming now, but gradually she will become more accustomed to managing things herself that were your FIL’s role before. Along with the trauma of losing your lifelong partner, there can be a huge loss of confidence at suddenly being a lone person, when you have spent your adult life as half of a couple. I remember the year after my father died as a time when everything seemed to float past me, I felt that I was moving very slowly while the rest of the world was whizzing by. Losing your partner is an enormous thing to go through, your whole life changes. Your DH could teach her one new thing a month perhaps ? Once she can retain information again.
LadyDanburysHat · 14/04/2021 09:07

I've just read the whole thread OP, and really don't understand why people are being so arsey. You clearly came here to ask a simple question as to how common your MILs situation was at her age. Not to assume all are like this, or to slag her off.

I think it's good she is making steps to learn. My MIL did not have a huge idea of finances etc. She was 70 when FIL died but it was 12 years ago, and I think her generation it was a little more normal. Your MIL I would say is more unusual, as like you said she worked. She will find her way, but it will take time. The best thing is that she is willing to learn and not just leaving it to your DH forever.

PrincessBuggerPants · 14/04/2021 09:08

Are we not allowed discussion anymore?

coming on this forum to whinge about the difficulties you’re having with her just isn’t cricket.

Apparently not. The people being horrible to the recently bereaved OP seem to have an unshakable belief that the OP is not reasonable to have queried a problematic family dynamic on this forum, and believe that they are here to police her attempt to get help.

There is a deeply conservative (with a small c) attitude that is growing on MN at the moment that increasingly frequently tries to demand women prove they are worthy of help and advice only if they prove their reasonableness and innocence to the baying mob. It is quite disturbing.

I don't know if it is the pandemic and lockdown that has led to this increasingly insular, immovable mindset or just the direction of society in general, but it makes me sad.

MintyMabel · 14/04/2021 09:10

What’s more surprising is that you had no idea. We knew well before FIL died that they way they split their roles meant MIL would find a lot of things difficult when he died. We took it upon ourselves to make sure she had the skills and access to things she needed. Glad we did as he became ill in his early 60s and died at 64.

With my own parents, if anything it will be my dad who struggles as mum has always dealt with finances and stuff because dad worked abroad for years and she needed to do that.

Some will still have those traditional roles, some will not. I don’t think it’s helpful to wail about society and how women need to do stuff, but more we need to look within our own families and make sure we identify any individuals who might struggle.

LongHotSummerJustPassedMeBy · 14/04/2021 09:13

"My 90-year-old Grandma on my Dad's side is sharp as a button- she has an iPhone 11, a MacBook and an iPad. She can use email and Whatsapp and has done online shopping, grocery shops and banking since they became things. She does all their finances and has a handle on everything."
*
*
I think I have a new role model!

Condenast · 14/04/2021 09:13

This is a massive generalisation. And somehow it comes across as very judgmental and critical.
It could just as easily be the other way round.
My Mum manages all the household finances/emails, my Dad wouldn’t have a clue.
It’s nothing to do with being female, being of a certain generation, it’s simply how their partnership worked.
It’s probably quite telling that you didn’t know this about them

babbaloushka · 14/04/2021 09:14

I'm actually grateful for this thread OP, sorry you're getting a hard time. Is definitely useful when thinking about my own ILs, I'm going to check with DH how he feels they might cope without each other, as ive a feeling the dynamic is very similar to above.

MintyMabel · 14/04/2021 09:15

I’ve just read the whole thread OP, and really don't understand why people are being so arsey. You clearly came here to ask a simple question as to how common your MILs situation was at her age. Not to assume all are like this, or to slag her off

I think it is because of the language used. “Hasn’t the faintest idea” “flummoxed” “gobsmacked” “desperate incredulity” etc.

That’s not the language of a simple question. That’s judgement. That’s considering her inferior.

soughsigh · 14/04/2021 09:15

I can't believe you're getting such a hard time either! It's maybe not the norm, but definitely common enough.

My grandmother would have been in exactly the same position when she died if my grandfather hadn't outlived her. He was a banker and did everything finance related. He gave her money for housekeeping once a week.

My grandma passed her driving test in her 20s and hadn't drove since. She met grandad at 16 and moved out of her mother's house into a house with him.

In return, granddad famously couldn't even boil an egg and I bet he had never cleaned or changed a nappy in his life. He only lived for 6 months after grandma passed away, and that was spent in a care home or hospital so they weren't apart for long.

My mum was widowed a few years ago and she didn't like doing long journeys either. Now she will happily do 2 hour drives that she knows and reluctantly do the 5 hour drive to see me.

It's a difficult time for both your mum and your DH. I think mum took over a year to get used to the concept of being a widower (and obviously we all miss dad). Flowers during this difficult time for you all.

ancientgran · 14/04/2021 09:15

Judge a whole generation of women on one example. She isn't the only one whose a bit clueless is she.

gamerchick · 14/04/2021 09:16

@GCAcademic

It's not common, no. However, my mother (76) is the same. She never learnt to drive, can't use a computer, won't use a cash machine (withdraws cash at the counter of her bank), has never paid a household bill or had to organise anything like insurance or switching energy suppliers. If she ends up widowed, I will have to do everything for her. I doubt that she would be able to get to grips with any of this as the most tiny of things sends her into a panic (not a generational thing, btw, just her personality!).
Mines similar. She'll take the tops off my dad's hard boiled eggs but has no clue who the energy supplier is. I've never known her to work outside the home either. She'll not expect to learn either if she loses my dad. She'll expect her kids to take over.

Some couples just fall into this roll when they've got together young I think. But people can always learn how to do something.

Embracingthechaos · 14/04/2021 09:16

Sounds totally normal to me. Elderly couples often have developed a "groove" without even realising it. If they are both lucky enough to live for a very long time then once one goes the other one suddenly realises that they haven't cooked dinner or scheduled a GP appt for themselves in over 40 years.

This doesn't mean that you have to do everything for her. She will need to figure out a new groove. Help her to do that, either by showing her how to do things or putting her in touch with people who can do it for her (perhaps even carers or sheltered accommodation, if you think she's that far gone).

Nith · 14/04/2021 09:16

I think it's just the way their roles fell, so she never learned

I don't see how that can possibly be. As OP says, she must have had to use IT and emails for work purposes, she must have dealt with employment contracts etc. I must say, I would be thinking about possible early dementia.

ancientgran · 14/04/2021 09:16

@MintyMabel

I’ve just read the whole thread OP, and really don't understand why people are being so arsey. You clearly came here to ask a simple question as to how common your MILs situation was at her age. Not to assume all are like this, or to slag her off

I think it is because of the language used. “Hasn’t the faintest idea” “flummoxed” “gobsmacked” “desperate incredulity” etc.

That’s not the language of a simple question. That’s judgement. That’s considering her inferior.

Yes, it's really unpleasant isn't it.
GeronimoHate · 14/04/2021 09:17

@PrincessBuggerPants

Are we not allowed discussion anymore?

coming on this forum to whinge about the difficulties you’re having with her just isn’t cricket.

Apparently not. The people being horrible to the recently bereaved OP seem to have an unshakable belief that the OP is not reasonable to have queried a problematic family dynamic on this forum, and believe that they are here to police her attempt to get help.

There is a deeply conservative (with a small c) attitude that is growing on MN at the moment that increasingly frequently tries to demand women prove they are worthy of help and advice only if they prove their reasonableness and innocence to the baying mob. It is quite disturbing.

I don't know if it is the pandemic and lockdown that has led to this increasingly insular, immovable mindset or just the direction of society in general, but it makes me sad.

MN can't be a bit weird at times - asking a question can get you pounced on and it very much depends on the first few responses. Piles on have always been popular though. And some people aren't very good at discussing something they don't agree with so they just hurl insults and accusations - or even worse start picking on someone's spelling or grammar! It's not a new thing, there has always been shitty people on here.
TheYearOfSmallThings · 14/04/2021 09:18

she made it clear she didn't consider that her role and didn't want it to be.

I think a lot of this goes on, for both sexes. It might be more noticeable in older women because older men often just marry again quickly, and the new wife takes on all the Women's Jobs.

ancientgran · 14/04/2021 09:19

@ElphabaTheGreen

On the other hand, my mum recently passed away and my dad who's 70 has no idea how to do anything as my mum did it all. I've now had to take over and I'm getting POA to make sure I can keep it all under control if he becomes unable (!).

Yep - we got LPAs done so quick for all three of us (me, DH, DMIL) when DFIL became critically ill, because he never had one and there were some scary weeks where he was still alive, had a chance of life long incapacity and MIL with no direct access to their finances. If she’d needed to claim on insurance or renew any policies while he was still alive we would have to have gone through the court of protection.

I have become a broken record player to anyone I meet - get LPAs done no matter how young and fit you might be!

I've been doing all the paperwork/decision making for an elderly relative with dementia. I would advise anyone not to take it on, it is thankless and soul destroying. All you need is access to their bank account, joint account makes it easy. The rest I'd never do again.
everybodysang · 14/04/2021 09:20

I too am not quite sure why you're getting such a hard time. It's actually a very interesting thread.

My PIL are mid-70s and both super, super capable - in the house, financially, technologically. If either died, although they'd be bereft, the life admin stuff would definitely not be an issue.

My dad is a couple of years older. He's not bad with tech - he's got a laptop though he did click on so many spam emails that it screwed it up which my brother then had to sort out. (At least... I think that's what did it. It's literally just occurred to me that maybe he was looking at porn or something which I perhaps won't think about right now!!!)

My mum, also a few years older, while a pretty intelligent woman, hasn't left the house in years and years. Anxiety, OCD, agrophobia and general physical decline have left her housebound. She's never been great with tech. They were always quite good about knowing where the money was/documents etc so I don't think wills/bank accounts etc would present a huge problem, or actually sorting funerals and stuff (though I expect my brother and I would take charge a bit) but I'm not sure how she would function day to day at all. It's terrifying.

My DH is 51 and I'm 41. We divide things pretty equally as far as life admin goes - I take care of insurance and the bills account so I suppose if I died tomorrow he'd have to sort that out - he'd know most of the things but you know what, I'm going to write it all down today, just so it's easier if something does happen.

If he died tomorrow I think I'd be able to cope with all the admin though I must ask him again where he keeps his will.

I'm not sure what days the bins go out as he does that... but I'm pretty sure I could figure it out.

TSBelliot · 14/04/2021 09:20

I think she could have avoided IT in schools - especially if she was doing supply at the end. In some schools access to tech was still limited in certain rooms - tech would be one of those. The other stuff makes life hard. Dad’s sister was the same and when her dh died she had no idea about where money was or whether they owned their house or how to put petroleum in the car or to drive on a motorway. She has come on amazingly but I did think it made everything more difficult than it needed to be.

everybodysang · 14/04/2021 09:22

is it worth getting an LPA just... in case? I just looked it up and it costs £82 which is a fair amount to us at the moment and we don't really have joint things for anything.

ancientgran · 14/04/2021 09:22

@PrincessBuggerPants

Are we not allowed discussion anymore?

coming on this forum to whinge about the difficulties you’re having with her just isn’t cricket.

Apparently not. The people being horrible to the recently bereaved OP seem to have an unshakable belief that the OP is not reasonable to have queried a problematic family dynamic on this forum, and believe that they are here to police her attempt to get help.

There is a deeply conservative (with a small c) attitude that is growing on MN at the moment that increasingly frequently tries to demand women prove they are worthy of help and advice only if they prove their reasonableness and innocence to the baying mob. It is quite disturbing.

I don't know if it is the pandemic and lockdown that has led to this increasingly insular, immovable mindset or just the direction of society in general, but it makes me sad.

Though it's OK for the OP to be judgemental about the actual widow, you know the one who will feel the bereavement far more than the DIL.

Why does it matter if the MIL is unusual or the norm, won't help the OP or her husband or indeed the MIL.

It makes me sad that when an elderly woman is bereaved all her nearest and dearest want to do is run her down on a public forum.

mintich · 14/04/2021 09:23

I do actually worry about my dad dying first, as my mum is exactly the same. He does everything for her and she has got worse over the years. She would be exactly the same as your mother

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