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Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

645 replies

ElphabaTheGreen · 13/04/2021 23:27

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP posts:
ElphabaTheGreen · 14/04/2021 08:50

[quote Piglet89]@ElphabaTheGreen I actually have read all of your updates. Every single one.

They do not negate some of the really quite unpleasant elements of your OP.

This stuff is common sense, really. The reality is, as they say, what it is. You’re confronted with the situation before you. You’re helping her, sure - which is better than not, but your OP tells me that you’re starting to regard it as a bit of a chore to do so and you’re worried about having to continue to do so.

It’s not true empathetic behaviour.[/quote]
So we should continue to do everything for her that DFIL did on top of all of our own considerable responsibilities and never feel slightly stressed by this? This is a sign of us not being ‘empathetic’?

I completely disagree.

OP posts:
Piglet89 · 14/04/2021 08:50

Believe me - I understand the frustration a bit, as I have a family member living near me who relies on me for some advice as to tech, broadband provider deals etc. I try to be as empathetic as I can - she hasn’t even suffered a major bereavement!

I think the key is to try to be more patient and coming on this forum to whinge about the difficulties you’re having with her just isn’t cricket.

Confusedandshaken · 14/04/2021 08:51

My mum is a little older and had been widowed a long time. She has always been extremely competent and organised financially and in every other aspect of her life. She is struggling now because she is deaf so can't arrange things on the phone and she either can't or won't trust the internet. She uses it for unimportant things like staying in touch with family on FaceTime and social media but refuses to run things like banking, utilities, investments, medical appts online. To her that is serious stuff and as an ex-accountant she wants to know everything is secure and to have a paper copy of every transaction. It's not to do with competence but it certainly makes her life (and by extension, my life) much more complicated than necessary.

You are being harsh on your MIL. She is recently bereaved which can knock anyone off kilter for a while. She also has a host of life experience and skills that you will probably never master. No-one can be good at everything. My mum might not be able to book her boiler service appointment online but she can knit Aran sweaters that people still wear after 30 years and make a pound of mince feed the 5000. 2 skills I will never master.

Value what she can do and who she is.

GCAcademic · 14/04/2021 08:51

It's not common, no. However, my mother (76) is the same. She never learnt to drive, can't use a computer, won't use a cash machine (withdraws cash at the counter of her bank), has never paid a household bill or had to organise anything like insurance or switching energy suppliers. If she ends up widowed, I will have to do everything for her. I doubt that she would be able to get to grips with any of this as the most tiny of things sends her into a panic (not a generational thing, btw, just her personality!).

skeggycaggy · 14/04/2021 08:52

Didn’t RTFT but my MIL is just the same. She ran her own business until retiring in 2000, but now age 80 can’t book her own car in for an MOT. FIL did do all the finance admin stuff (he also reversed and parked the car even when legally blind & not allowed to drive because she can’t), but it is not beyond her capabilities to learn it. In my MiL case it’s an attention seeking helplessness. My SIL has to manage everything now pretty much.

Thisbastardcomputer · 14/04/2021 08:52

She's 6 years older than me, I could take all that on and cope. I do know two couples like this, they have blue jobs for the man and pink jobs for the women and they are clearly defined with no cross over. I call these sort of women, little women, the amount of times arrangements have to be adjusted because they can't drive on a motorway or such like.

Piglet89 · 14/04/2021 08:53

Of course you shouldn’t continue to do everything! But it’s been two months since her husband’s death, for goodness sake! That’s no time at all!

Were it me, I’d put a plan in place gradually to wean her off your support, little by little. Draw up a list of all the things for which your FIL was responsible, what needs to be done and how you can help her gradually to deal with these things independently, over the course of, say, the next 9 months. Unfortunately, she’s likely to need your help for a little longer.

It doesn’t help that your husband is an only child and so has no siblings to help share this responsibility. Is there anyone else who could help?

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/04/2021 08:54

@Piglet89

Believe me - I understand the frustration a bit, as I have a family member living near me who relies on me for some advice as to tech, broadband provider deals etc. I try to be as empathetic as I can - she hasn’t even suffered a major bereavement!

I think the key is to try to be more patient and coming on this forum to whinge about the difficulties you’re having with her just isn’t cricket.

But I would never, ever have this conversation IRL with anyone other than DH - that, to me, is definitely ‘not cricket’.

This is an anonymous forum with a far wider audience than I would have IRL. I’m genuinely not whinging - I’m surprised and wondering how common this issue is. Genuinely.

OP posts:
RedcurrantPuff · 14/04/2021 08:55

My mum certainly isn’t like this. She’s 73 but she also had a very responsible job in a lawyer’s cash room.

abisothergran · 14/04/2021 08:55

Your MIL sounds like mine was when she was widowed 20 years ago -very traditional division of responsibilities in her marriage left her completely at sea over all things financial.Fortunately rather than do everything for her my husband and I helped her for the first year and she
remains competent now in her early 90s-so do not despair.

bootlebum · 14/04/2021 08:57

Your story reminds me of my friends situation which was almost identical. Her mother was in the early stages of dementia although it took them a few years to get a diagnosis. I'd get that checked out.

scrappydappydoo · 14/04/2021 08:57

I don’t think think it’s that unusual for an older person to struggle especially one whose still grieving.
For what it’s worth I am shit at ‘life admin’ well admin full stop. I’m not thick I can do lots of other stuff (like post on mn Wink) but I get like a fog that descends when people talk about money/pensions/savings etc and if I absolutely have to deal with stuff dh sits next to me and coaches me through phone calls and websites - it is embarrassing and painful and dh is very patient. It’s like weird mental block - I know it needs doing but I just freeze up. Dh dying and leaving me to do this stuff alone scares the crap out of me - so I have great sympathy for your MIL.

Wildswimming3 · 14/04/2021 08:57

My mum (79) always lived alone so had to do a lot of practical things. She could just about send at email but couldnt grasp internet banking. She used to go into town to 'look at her money' which made her family laugh.

StopGo · 14/04/2021 08:57

Our DM is one of those completely devoid of lifeskill. We always thought DF enabled her and we weren't surprised when everything unravelled when he died.
DM worked for most of her adult life in offices using computers etc. She has always been an inattentive but controlling person.
She has been diagnosed with dementia. Interestingly this has also revealed that she has ASD with ODD which explains so much.

Piglet89 · 14/04/2021 08:57

@abisothergran yep that sounds like a sensible approach.

GeronimoHate · 14/04/2021 08:57

DH and I have our defined roles - I'm thinking if something happened to either of us we would struggle to get back on our feet with insurance, accounts, bills in the midst of grief. I have no idea how much money we have - I know it's plenty enough for me not to have to worry about it - we have annual discussions about where we invest and what we plan to save and spend etc you could say our finances are complex and dh likes dealing with it - I feel no need to double up on the effort.

Mil didn't have clue about sorting stuff when Fil died - we did all the funeral arrangements - we still sort things for her - I sort her bills, dh deals with all her admin when we visit - we monitor her bank accounts as she gets anxious that she is running out of money - so we keep an eye on it which seems to give her some comfort. Sils arrange things for her. I don't think we gave this much thought, she needed the support and we gave it to her. My Mum and Dad are 87 years old they do very little life admin, my brother or his wife does it all - it's too much for them - if they can stay awake for 30mins it's an achievement.

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/04/2021 08:58

@Piglet89

Of course you shouldn’t continue to do everything! But it’s been two months since her husband’s death, for goodness sake! That’s no time at all!

Were it me, I’d put a plan in place gradually to wean her off your support, little by little. Draw up a list of all the things for which your FIL was responsible, what needs to be done and how you can help her gradually to deal with these things independently, over the course of, say, the next 9 months. Unfortunately, she’s likely to need your help for a little longer.

It doesn’t help that your husband is an only child and so has no siblings to help share this responsibility. Is there anyone else who could help?

Confused

This is exactly what we are doing and what I’ve said many times that we’re doing.

OP posts:
AColdDuncanGoodhew · 14/04/2021 08:58

My MIL is the same, FIL apparently spent years trying to teach her everything but she wasn't interested. Since he’s died we’ve helped but she’s picked up a lot, can use a bank card now, can order an online shopping etc

ElphabaTheGreen · 14/04/2021 08:59

No, we have no one else to help. No other family at at - DFIL and DMIL were both only children as am DH and I. So it’s all up to us to help her.

OP posts:
DeeCeeCherry · 14/04/2021 09:01

Grief affects people differently. Both genders, I might add. & What she may not know, at least she's trying to learn. She likely had input into their relationship in other ways

Your post is patronising, mean-spirited, sexist and ageist OP.

Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and* reminisce about how she taught their parents

Yeah, she probably got a teaching job just by smiling and being pretty she can't have been any good🙄

Never mind gloating, maybe get your husband to un-gobsmack himself and help his mum a bit more whilst she's grieving, and leave you aside on this as your unkindness isn't much help at this difficult time.

You don't know what you'll be like at 70. You may be a know it all who then finds she can't do it all, and you'll need help.

None of us know what life has in store.

Piglet89 · 14/04/2021 09:01

God I’m an only child and I was going to have just one myself. My husband has a younger brother but he’s as technically challenged as your MIL!

This makes me worry a bit!

Branleuse · 14/04/2021 09:02

Sounds like they just had their own roles and their own strengths and weaknesses and both compensated for the other really well and smoothly. Sounds like she had a decent career and is likely overwhelmed with her workload doubling and losing her soulmate. Shes already picking up what she needs to do bit by bit.

RedcurrantPuff · 14/04/2021 09:02

Just read these responses wow can’t believe you are getting such a hard time! Given how many women end up widowed (given they often marry older men and men die younger) being left on one’s own in later life is always a realistic possibility and to not even be able to look after oneself properly is not ideal. She’s also only 70 FGS not 90. Computers and online banking have been around since she was a relatively young woman.

It can work the other way too I’ve known of men who can’t even make themselves a cup of tea or wash their clothes as the wife did it all.

lottiegarbanzo · 14/04/2021 09:02

Yes, it is very common for couples who get together young to specialise, so that they are each utterly incompetent at the other's skills.

It is still going on, among the young.

You see it with cooking all the time, for example and people who claim 'not to know how to use the washing machine'.

Shinyletsbebadguys · 14/04/2021 09:03

I'm not sure its age as such mire a sort of odd embracing of a bastardised image of a traditional role.

The reason I say I'm not convinced its age is because I saw it in my dsis in her late thirties.

She split up with Exbil and whilst he was certainly an arse he wasn't abusive. While they had been married I had been off at university and doing the twenties thing of wandering around the country and trying to figure out what and how I was so I hadn't seen the dynamics a lot.

I remember when we were moving her out I saw her standing on the landing and asked her if she was OK. She was looking at the loft and said I don't know how to get up there. I was a bit surprised and duly got the ladder out and we went up there blah blah blah. In the exercise I realised she was suddenly apparently incapable of making decisions.

Of course during a marriage breakup you have moments like that (I've been through one and totally understand the moments of sadness and overwhelming moments) this really wasn't that.

It came out she had no idea about any finances ,where any documents were kept. We started to query abuse to be honest but she made it clear she didn't consider that her role and didn't want it to be. For context my dsis has extreme entitlement to be looked after and given a champagne lifestyle. This has raised its head alot.

That said , whilst my dsis and I do not get on at all, she is a very intelligent and capable person. We were both raised by very matriarchal Welsh women. Our grandmother ruled with a nice rod of iron. She ran the show. My mother ,whilst being the source of dsis entitlement belief, actually was in full control of the house and to most levels is fully aware of finances,insurances etc etc.

My dsis had decided when she got married that was what her husband was for and I genuinely have absolutely no idea why. It took her years to realise that she needed to do it herself. It was absolutely not a question of can't. My dsis could run the country if she so chose (I mean it would be a dictatorship and we would all be miserable because she's batshit crazy but still she would run it ) I have no doubt whatsoever.

She still at times however , after years of being a single parent , cyrates this wierd form of learned helplessness. She has a good job that she does well at (whilst granted winging constantly about actually having to work ) but then insists her dc go with her to the gym because she is "scared" nd doesn't understand.Hmm

I grew up in the same household and am almost unhealthily independent and controlling (I fully and entirely accept my way can be just as bad).

I genuinely have no idea why my dsis seems to have sought out learned helplessness.

So I don't know if its age or even if its a female thing (god knows we all know men who claim not to be able to use a washing machine Hmm probably the same concept ) but I agree i find it incredibly odd outside of abuse or lack of the culture that you can do things for yourself.