Is a complete lack of ‘life admin’ skills a common thing, particularly in older women?

[ElphabaTheGreen]

DFIL died recently. DMIL (70 years old) is bereft, quite understandably, because they were that rare, utterly, utterly besotted and devoted couple from the day they met until the day he died 48 years later. I used to use the fact that they even had the one email address as testament to what an inseparable, devoted couple they were (it was [email protected]).

Until it became apparent, now that DFIL has gone, that the lone email address is actually testament to how utterly, utterly devoid of life admin skills DMIL is.

She had no idea how to use the email address. She had no idea how to access their bank accounts. She hadn’t the faintest idea what their incomings/outgoings/savings were. She hadn’t the first clue how to arrange the death certificate or funeral, even when given basic, basic instructions and multiple calls from the bereavement office at the hospital. You might just as well be speaking German to her as having a basic grasp of wills, probate, or transfer of any of DFIL’s accounts to her name. All queries from the solicitor get forwarded to DH to deal with - not because she’s mired in grief but because she cannot grasp requests for even basic information such as confirmation of address. She has no idea how to book her car in for an MOT, no idea how to even put screen wash in her car. My DH has been helping her with all of this, obviously, but when she asked, ‘Will I still be able to afford holidays?’ he just looked at her with slightly desperate incredulity because she wouldn’t have the faintest idea how to book one, she’s never driven further than 20 minutes from her house by herself (DFIL drove anything further) so would never know how to get to an airport or onto an aeroplane by herself, navigate a foreign country, arrange and deal with foreign currency...

DH and I thought she had managed her own father’s finances and funeral up until he died a couple of years ago but nope - DFIL did it all.

DH is gobsmacked at how lacking in basic skills she is to the point that he’s wondering if she’s even in an early stage of dementia. I don’t think she is, because she is slowly picking up on bits here and there and I think there’s light at the end of the tunnel in giving her some basic competency in running her own life. I think all of the above was just always and entirely DFIL’s responsibility in which she had zero interest so was perfectly happy leaving all the ‘hard stuff’ to him. What we’re not sure of is whether there might have been an element of DFIL realising how utterly inept DMIL was at all of it from the get go and just took over sharpish because it was easier.

What flummoxes me about this, though, is she’s the first generation of women, surely, who would have grown up with the understanding that women could and should be as self-sufficient as possible so would surely have felt some obligation to keep herself more informed and engaged, particularly in their finances? She went back to work after DH was born (their only child) so it’s not like she clung entirely to the role of 50s housewife. What’s more, she was a secondary teacher, working up until 2010 or 2011 so she would have worked well into the technological revolution. She would surely have used computers and email for work, needed to use PowerPoint, Word (DH was showing her the other day how to cut and paste in an email which was new to her...). Her main subject was home economics/food technology but I’m pretty sure her final years were spent doing relief in the one school. Looking at her now, I have a feeling she may have been one of those relief teachers who the kids were delighted to get - a period of sacking off maths because Mrs DH’sMum has no clue on the subject but instead she’d ruffle their hair and reminisce about how she taught their parents.

Before anyone suggests financial abuse on the part of DFIL - no, not the slightest chance. He was the kindest man to ever walk the earth. By contrast, if I ever needed help with childcare, it was DMIL I’d arrange it with as she was their very efficient social secretary - DFIL was scatty as fuck with anything like that. He also never ironed a shirt in his life, packed a suitcase or switched on a hoover - that was her department. So they had clearly defined roles. Nevertheless, if she’d gone first, DFIL would have managed living independently far better than it looks like she will because he knew how to function in the wider world.

Very, very long ramble to basically ask, how common is this? Is she unusually lacking in skills to manage her own life or is this an alarmingly frequent occurrence?

OP- From my experience it’s a mixed bag but quite a lot of women I know of mixed age ranges fall into this category .

@Shehasadiamondinthesky I agree with everything you say .

I have a friend who at 49 will do nothing without her husband. Not even travel to the next city ..
we talked as a group of 6 women of all going to Prague for a weekend and she wouldn’t unless she could bring him too as she had never been through an airport without him .( apparently we wouldn’t do as stand ins )

We have often said that we feared how she would cope if he wasn’t there .

Sorry for your loss OP

I don't have a "career" as such, but a job that I love. I have no interest in managing other people, and I am very good at what I do. I don't think that not having a career makes people lacking in aspiration.

My mil is the same, my fil died of cancer 3 years ago but he put all of his affairs in order making sure mil wouldnt have to sort anything out . He also made my dh Poa because he knew his wife would not manage their affairs.
We have weekly ft calls with her and she’s always fussing about something or other. My dh spends most of the time explaining how to do these simple things🤦‍♀️

My mil is like this at a much younger 63. She took care of their boys, the home, family admin, cooked and cleaned. He took care of everything else, it worried for them and they were happy. Then fil passed away and she realised that there were a lot of things she had no clue about and was tarting to learn. She lives with mt bil though who has just taken over films role so she doesn't need to worry about things such as paying the mortgage or bills. She could learn if she wanted to.

I would say your dh's role as her only child is to support her to learn how to do simple things like access her bank account, have an awareness of her incoming and outgoings, show her how to do an online shop, pay her bills etc. If she is incapable due to dementia etc then I would do it for her but only if she was not capable otherwise she might find learning makes her feel more confident and empowered which would be a great thing!

@Therewereroses

As for how to organise a funeral, who the hell knows that?

When DM died I soon found out that you don't, the funeral director does it at vast expense. I did hardly anything just coughed up over £4k from DM's estate, you get guided through it.

*she lives with bil who has taken over fil's role

My grandparents are like this, my Nan doesn’t have a clue about any of it. My Granddad has already talked my Mum through everything and shown her where important documents are as it’s just been assumed that my Mum will take on the role of sorting that. My Nan is perfectly capable but she was from a background that had low expectations from school and I suspect she thought she’d done well because she had a responsible husband who took over that side of things and she wasn’t worrying about keeping a roof over their head. I imagine after a lifetime of that it would be hard for her to suddenly take charge of bills etc.

I agree with you ThereWereRoses. Two month is absolutely nothing when it comes to grief. Poor woman will still be in shock.

I know how you feel, OP. A couple of my relatives were the same: a wonderful marriage but DW was totally helpless when DH died. But they were much older, in their late 80s. It seems a bit surprising that someone of 70 never did any admin. But it was a long marriage, from an early age, and I suppose you could just slip easily into those roles — one going the admin, one doing all the home and social organising — and lose your other skills.

I’m glad she has you on her side. My widowed relative’s son took over her accounts and spent her money on himself.

I once worked with a woman like this. She was only early forties at the time and couldn’t/wouldn’t do anything. Didn’t even know how to turn the heating on. I suspected her dh was abusive though all done under the guise of being caring and doing things for her.

I think bereavement knocks the stuffing out of you - definitely has an impact on short term memory and general confidence. Their lives have changed irrevocably.

My Dad had moved from his widowed mother, to his aunt's house, to live with my mum. I had to leave my Dad written instructions to use washing machine (and how to separate his whites), what things go in the dryer and what wouldn't etc. He'd never had to do a supermarket shop or meal planning. Lots of tiny things that had been done for him over many years. He's picked everything up.

Funerals - I've just gone to their local Coop funeral directors and they've led me through what to do.

I’m not puzzled at all about why the OP is getting a hard time. Her mother in law has, as others have said, just experienced a profound bereavement, losing her life partner of nearly 5 decades. Major, shocking life change. But, instead of just privately trying to help her or displaying some empathy, she comes on and slags her off on an anonymous forum and makes nasty comments about the kind of teacher she suspects she was.

What difference does it really make if this situation common or not? The reality is that your own MIL is displaying these tendencies - just deal with the situation in front of you. Plus, she’s been kind enough to help with childcare too.

It’s not a nice OP.

Definitely op. Neither of my grandmothers did anything to do with utilities and now it's falling to me to sort them out all the time. Even if they just get a letter saying something like "your mid year review" they message like oh SSE are needing something from me or they want to cancel. It's like they just cannot interoperate the information.
Car fax is another one and that process is so simple and it's laid out point by point how to do it with the huge reference number and website to go to....but no still can't manage.

They can however you FB, but wool online, buy gardening stuff online. My granny uses Amazon prime and watched TV on there and buys kindle books so it's definitely not like a "this day and age thing" it's that they don't want to understand any of it.

Hard work. I recently found out my granny was paying 78 pounds a month on her phone and broadband plus calls. Ffs I've managed to get her a whole new package for 32 with no additional add ons. Companies take advantage of them too.

My mother is like this. I can understand why op has posted, it is alarming to see such helplessness.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

No it isn't natural, you need to educate yourself

Why? I don’t need to know how to do those things and would learn if I did. What possible value is there in “educating myself” when there’s far more interesting things to do?!

I think it is quite common - my mother couldn’t even write a cheque after my father died. Now MIL in same situation - goes into complete meltdown when a bill arrives and my DH is doing everything for her.

My DM aged 78 was widowed in her 50s and and is incredibly competent. Got better life admin skills than anyone I know. I can imagine DMiL struggling a bit though and DFiL probably does everything. If we send birthday ideas for the kids by Amazon link she finds that difficult and asks us to buy it.

My DM is becoming like this and she’s only 61. She used to be perfectly capable of managing the household finances, sending emails, sorting out car insurance etc and had an important, stressful role in the civil service before having to take early retirement due to health issues.

Unfortunately, over the past couple of years she seems to have lost confidence and become quite anxious. She’s lost a lot of her IT skills as well. I think it’s because of her health problems, declining eyesight and the fact she’s increasingly becoming housebound. She gets into a complete panic over household admin now. I’ve ended up having to take over and I now attend all of her medical appts with her as she forgets what the dr has said.

I don’t think it’s dementia, I think it’s anxiety.

I think all the sympathetic posts about this woman struggling through grief make important and valid points.
For anyone hit by grief sometimes the simplist task is overwhelming, and having to deal with banks, make phone calls, sort out all the stuff that needs doing can be really hard.
A mind troubled by grief can become scattered for a while, short term memory poor, no focus or concentration.
I think we can all understand that.

But the other point the OP is making is a historical one.
Never having learned these like skills is concerning.
I know- my mother is one.
Never having fully entered the adult world, married young, happy let my father deal with all the serious stuff. My mother would keep the house, iron his shirts, cook, care for the children, never had a bank account, didn't work after she married, never learned to drive.

Never grew up.
When my father died I had to step into the parent role for my mother.
Sort out all financials, always be on hand to deal with power and phone companies. She was clueless. And had no interest in learning.
Happy in her Peter Pan world.

Something which I find useful for myself, if anyone is struggling with parents who lack in computer skills, is good old pen and paper.
There are very few who lack the ability to do addition and subtraction.
You can help them go through their bank statements and write out the list of the main direct debits. They can then write in the relevant amounts beside each bill and tell them that if they sign up for something new, to just add it on.

On the other side you have the incomings. Same for that.
Then they can see how much money they have for groceries or whatever, so they can estimate how much they spend a week/month on that.
They might want to save up for a holiday, Christmas gifts, grandkids, bingo, bridge, Las Vegas, whatever the fuck they like. Give them the autonomy and off they'll go and won't depend on you again!
Don't forget to account for things like TV licence, car insurance, car loans, petrol, car tax, MOT, new tyres, car service. Boiler repairs or other unexpected expenses should be budgeted for too.
It might make them feel more in control as an excel spreadsheet might be a bridge too far for some and seeing it written in their own hand in black and white can be easier to read for some (me included, age 40).

My mother as like that, but she learned. She had never so much as seen a bill. She also learned why my father had papers he was organising spread around and how unfair she had been to get angry at him for being untidy. He would have been the same in the areas that were her sphere. No idea about cooking, nutrition, cleaning, general household care. Tbh, I don't think he would have learned, just lived in chaos and eaten ready meals with a cleaner coming in.

She was born in 1928 and he was born in 1922.

KizzyKat91 I hope it isn't age!!

I am almost the same age as your mother.

Yesterday I helped my DDs friend ( 20) to build a website and design a logo.

I still write out my budget monthly in pen and paper. If you knew what my career was, you would find this baffling to say the least and no I'm not telling you

I think you're under estimating how grief can impact on a persons day to day functioning.

My DM had a professional career and has always been highly capable at running a household. However, after my DF died I literally had to book my DMs hair appointments for her. A decade later she's back to being able to do everything independently. I don't think lack of household admin skills is an age thing, I think it's a grief thing.

My parents were quite similar. My dad had his role and my mam hers and there was absolutely no overlap. After my mam passed away I didn't realise how little my dad knew about finances/ organising day to day utilities but he is slowly learning. It's not a question of intelligence my mam just sorted that end of things for 40 years so dad now has to learn for himself.