If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

@Quit4me you do realise some people have careers that cant be dropped and picked up again 5 years down the line and actually, a lot of women LIKE working? It isn't all about not being on the breadline. What is the point of all the women who go to uni and/or train to become experts in their fields, are we all supposed to ditch it immediately to stay at home once we have children?

After maternity leave I never judged another SAHP again,

I chose to go back to work as the preferable choice because I found it hard work and full on and my DH did the bulk of the cooking and cleaning

I’m now a lot more relaxed

Family members who are SAHP are either made for it and relaxed about it or highly stressed and can’t cope

It really depends on the person

Lolling at 'idling around a supermarket'

There have been literally 1000s of threads about this over the years and I don’t think I have read anything new.

Horses for courses innit !

I've been a sahm for 22 years. People do judge although it's rare to get direct comments about it - it's usually the odd snide comment but even that's not often. I just tend to avoid the subject as a topic of conversation. Many people don't know I'm a sahm and simply assume that I work as it's common for most mums to work around here (I'm in London so most households need two workers to afford to live here). Financially we can afford it as I've been investing for years and have good returns from my investments - I don't tell anyone about that so people who do know that I'm a sahm assume it's down to DH's income.

In the past I've studied (a few different courses, and part-time so it stretched out quite a few years) and I'd be able to say 'I'm studying' if people asked what I did. A few years ago I started a company as a tiny micro-business to give me something to say I did if people asked. I've never put that much work into it and I've actually furloughed myself for the past year and not done any work at all.

Have been both a SAHM and working. I don't judge anyone. I am grateful for every day regardless. Each role has its advantages and disadvantages. Both are hard, involving lots of juggling. I did feel my family never accepted my SAHM role but I just ignored any negativity.

[quote HalfShrunkMoreToGo]@Quit4me

You think that I'm neglectful because I choose to work rather than live on the breadline and eek out every penny.

I think that I sent my daughter to an outstanding nursery and she got to spend a day a week with her nana which she loved, those experiences combined with the time DH and I spend with her have contributed to her being a bright, confident, hilarious, wonderful little girl and have in no way detrimentally impacted her development or sense of self.

[/quote]
A young child before they start school doesn’t give a crap wether you have gold work ethics or not. In fact a child below the age or 12 doesn’t give a crap. They just want a stable home with a reliable consistent caregiver who they believe and know from the bottom of their hearts loves them unconditionally. They don’t want / need money, private schools, fancy outstanding nurseries with 100 messy play activities, nice holidays or cars, fancy restaurants or any superficial stuff. Just a caregiver who is there day in day out making life as predictable as possible. If you as a min caregiver leave them for the vast majority of the week at 6 months old, to be cared for my strangers then yes, to me that’s not in the best interests of the child. It’s the adults interests and dressing it up as ‘my child loves nursery and is so independent’ really doesn’t convince me otherwise (how on earth would you really know that a 1 year old loves nursery and why on Earth are you wanting them to be independent at that age!?)
I want my kids to learn that if you choose to make the huge decision to have children, then it is on you or the father / grandparent to be there during the week in the early years.
Why on Earth a parent who actually wants to parent their child (shock horror!) has to be overbearing I don’t know, but if wanting to actually raise my child rather than leave them with strangers is over bearing then I’m happy to be so

@Quit4me my mum was a SAHM for 15 yrs or so & we had a nanny & I went to pre school. I'm honestly not at all scarred by the experience.

The judgey people would be like that whichever role they were in, some people are just not very nice and feel the need to make themselves feel better by asserting their superiority in whatever way they can. I've been both SAHM and working mum and I take people as I find them. It's sad to think that just because someone has a different life to you then you couldn't possibly have anything in common with them.
If you're a nice person then I'll probably like you, whatever your employment status.

LoveFromDeauville I have to be honest. I do wonder what a SAHM does all day, particularly those with older children. Both DH and I have full on finance roles but we love it.

If I ever think about it, which I mostly don't tbf, I kind of wonder what people who work in finance do all day. Doesn't it get boring, just sat around counting all the time? I couldn't let my mind narrow in such fashion.

My DC have both been to a nursery where the keyworkers are like extended family, far closer than their actual DGPs and we still see them 5 years on. Have you ever been to a nursery @Quit4me?

I think it's a bit late for her to start going now @Cannotgarden.

@Cannotgarden

My DC have both been to a nursery where the keyworkers are like extended family, far closer than their actual DGPs and we still see them 5 years on. Have you ever been to a nursery *@Quit4me*?

Yes, when my first child was 1 and i felt pressured to go back to work. Made me cry when I came out at the thought of leaving my child there. Young staff (most in their 20’s without kids themselves) many had only been there for a few months and seemed to be a fairly high turnover. Just seemed like a cattle farm for babies in all honesty

Just seemed like a cattle farm for babies in all honesty

They SHOOT them??!

Where is this monstrous place of horrors?

I don’t judge. I have worked part time, I was SAHM and now work full time. What other people do is their business not mine.
I was lucky to get back into the same line of work but I worry I won’t be around to pick my DD after school. Thankfully my DH’s work is more flexible and he will be able to.

@DogsAreShit

Just seemed like a cattle farm for babies in all honesty

They SHOOT them??!

Where is this monstrous place of horrors?

🤣 no not quite that bad! But they did seem to plonk them down shake a rattle then walk off, plonk another in a travel cot for their nap and walk off. Just not the 1-1 attention that I had been giving my baby for the last year and hated the idea of strangers teaching my baby and getting to see all their firsts whilst I wasn’t there

Its worth remembering that being a sahm is a role which comes with hugely varying terms and conditions. Much as working can mean being anything from ICU nurse that works long unsocial hours, to someone who does two morning a week at a garden centre.

There are a host of things I think about this (as FT 2 working single parent)

a. They are fools for putting themselves in a vulnerable position

b. They are amazing for hacking it (depends on age of kids)

c. Jealous because it would really nice to not have pressure of being sole provider. This is tripled if kids are all at school

d. That they've killed their careers (if they had one in the first place)

e) when they moan about no time. I offer sympathy but do wonder how the duck they'd hack it doing it all. All work, all house stuff, all parenting etc

[quote Quit4me]@HalfShrunkMoreToGo yes. If you want a full time career, don’t have kids. Simple. That’s my view.
If you have kids, you should make every possible effort in your power to actually look after them and not let a stranger do it for you.
People today want it all - totally selfish and not in the best interest of the child. Which child would want to be sent to a nursery 7am-7pm Monday to Friday, staffed by various strangers (to them) who leave and join all the time. Mums / dads can kid themselves as much as they want that this is best for the child and in the end they are ‘giving them a good work ethic). Total bollocks. A baby needs his or her mother because that’s who he / knows from the womb and during the first months of his life has bonded with as a main caregiver.
Separating a baby (esp full time) from the main caregiver at 6/12 months to ‘get some independence, find yourself again / work your way up the career ladder is damaging to a child in my view.
Having a baby is a long long term commitment. 0-5 years old have been proved to be the most important in a child’s whole development and they need maximum stability and routine.
Not giving this to a child in my view is harmful in the long term.[/quote]
So to answer your question OP, judgemental arseholes exist in all walks of life!

I don't judge at all. I was a sahm for 12 years and now work full time.

I can't tell you how much contempt I have for women who judge other women for their choices. Nothing worse than a female misogynist.

My perspective: I have happily been a SAHM for 27 years. I’m now a SAH granny. I don’t - and never have - give (given) a Monkey’s what anyone else thinks. Works wonderfully for us.

If you’re happy, why would you care?

Not judgment but for women with careers kids I worry about their financial dependence on a man. Given what 50% of marriages end in divorce, a lot of these women will end up single and needing to work again? It's harder after being out of the workplace.

I'd have loved to do it. But relationship problems were huge once DC arrived. So I went part time (4 days instead of 5) in my job, I can go back full time whenever I want and haven't really lost much. My pension contributions have been lower and missed a promotion but it is a better financial situation than starting again with no recent relevant work experience.

I wouldn't judge when the children are small, but I wonder why you would not want career and financial independence and what you would do all day if you've got older teens/DC that don't need you.

Come on. Let's use a bit of imagination here. You REALLY think that a career is the only way to be fulfilled? That's quite sad really. If you equate career with fulfillment, then what happens when you retire? You just sit around waiting to die?

Someone with older children or teens might decide to do a degree, a masters or a PhD for fulfillment, not to improve career prospects. They might volunteer doing something which interests them. They might take an allotment and spend hours talking to their carrots. They might learn to paint, research their family tree, knitting hats or learning to throw pots on a wheel. Any of those things could be the thing which makes their heart sing and fulfil them.

Just not the 1-1 attention that I had been giving my baby for the last year and hated the idea of strangers teaching my baby and getting to see all their firsts whilst I wasn’t there

My mum had 4 under 5, even with a nanny 1:1 attention constantly for each dc was impossible.

@Quit4me my mum worked full time when I was growing up and so did most of my friends mums. I knew she loved me unconditionally and we’ve all grown up into happy well balanced adults. It’s ridiculous to think it’s damaging, I have nothing but nice memories of growing up in a nice area, nice holidays and a great female role model in my mum. She showed me how to manage my time with a career and kids, allowed me space to think for myself, and I grew up grounded and knowing that although she loved me I wasn’t the centre of the universe and she was an individual with her own life and interests which I respected. I was proud she had a career and it inspired me to have a fulfilling career which provided me with so much more experience of the world than of I’d id stayed home after having kids. I’d hate for my daughter to think that if she chooses to have kids, she must do nothing but be a mother to them.

If you think people should only work when necessary/to afford to feed the kids-do you have a certain figure salary where you start judging people if they earn more than this? Do you judge anyone that earns more than minimum wage? Do you judge people that earn enough to allow their kids a room each when they could work less and the kids share one room? Do you judge fathers for earning money instead of earning the bare minimum and spending every second with their child?