If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

I don't judge SAHM I have no idea how they do it I definitely couldn't face it!

I do find that I get judgement for working full time quite a lot both from SAHP and some part time working parents. Like others have recieved the "I couldn't leave my child with strangers" comments.
The truth is I love my job and worked damn hard to get a career that I not only love but challenges me each day.
My DS loves nursery he does so much in a day, is independent and confident and his communication skills are way beyond him being a 2 year old due to him going to nursery.

I'm still able to pick him up from nursery, do dinner and bath time every night.

I tend to find those who judge others says more about their own insecurities rather than anything about me and my family.

I always think a woman must be very well off if she is a housewife. Because lets face it no self respecting modern woman would live off a man.

@HalfShrunkMoreToGo yes. If you want a full time career, don’t have kids. Simple. That’s my view.
If you have kids, you should make every possible effort in your power to actually look after them and not let a stranger do it for you.
People today want it all - totally selfish and not in the best interest of the child. Which child would want to be sent to a nursery 7am-7pm Monday to Friday, staffed by various strangers (to them) who leave and join all the time. Mums / dads can kid themselves as much as they want that this is best for the child and in the end they are ‘giving them a good work ethic). Total bollocks. A baby needs his or her mother because that’s who he / knows from the womb and during the first months of his life has bonded with as a main caregiver.
Separating a baby (esp full time) from the main caregiver at 6/12 months to ‘get some independence, find yourself again / work your way up the career ladder is damaging to a child in my view.
Having a baby is a long long term commitment. 0-5 years old have been proved to be the most important in a child’s whole development and they need maximum stability and routine.
Not giving this to a child in my view is harmful in the long term.

Bloody hell can you hear yourselves?

Those of you who are patronising sahms and assuming they can't handle the big bad world without hubby around, or don't have the nouse to sort out their own pension provision, or don't have anything better to do than meddle in other people's lives are demonstrating the very same "blinkered" and "narrow" thinking that you are attributing to sahms! If it wasn't so patronising I'd be laughing tbh!

But by all means, just throw all sahms in to the same pot and classify them as "lazy", "boring" "passive" and "stupid" ...and best of all ..."daytime alcoholics".

All of the sahms I know would be more than justified in calling themselves busy. One is the wife of a circuit judge who combines raising four DC with a major voluntary role that involves highly skilled PR, political lobbying and public speaking. One is the long term partner of someone in the military who's DH is away from the family home approx six months of the year , who raises two DC and is heavily involved in forces welfare, and another is an expat , a mother of three, who is tackling nurseries, schools, hospital appts, accommodation, school voluntary work, not only a different language, but in a different alphabet, while her DH travels the globe (in normal times). None of these women fit in to the "lazy" "boring" "so passive they hide in their own comfort zone" described here. Nor do they deserve such insults. All of them I would describe as independent, brave and intelligent women, fully engaged with the outside world. None of them have particularly tidy homes. And none of them are ladies who lunch or who spend long hours at the tennis club or hairdresser. So fuck off please with your patronising and insulting assumptions!

I honestly don't know any!! Not one of my friends or mums from schools re SAHP! We privately educate so I don't think anyone can afford to!
But I will admit that I find it a bit odd. I don't understand why someone would want to be a sahp, but then I am very career oriented and enjoy the status of my work role.

@ItalianRed

Hmm so actually in reality, still a lot of judgement.

From both sides if im honest.

[quote Quit4me]@HalfShrunkMoreToGo yes. If you want a full time career, don’t have kids. Simple. That’s my view.
If you have kids, you should make every possible effort in your power to actually look after them and not let a stranger do it for you.
People today want it all - totally selfish and not in the best interest of the child. Which child would want to be sent to a nursery 7am-7pm Monday to Friday, staffed by various strangers (to them) who leave and join all the time. Mums / dads can kid themselves as much as they want that this is best for the child and in the end they are ‘giving them a good work ethic). Total bollocks. A baby needs his or her mother because that’s who he / knows from the womb and during the first months of his life has bonded with as a main caregiver.
Separating a baby (esp full time) from the main caregiver at 6/12 months to ‘get some independence, find yourself again / work your way up the career ladder is damaging to a child in my view.
Having a baby is a long long term commitment. 0-5 years old have been proved to be the most important in a child’s whole development and they need maximum stability and routine.
Not giving this to a child in my view is harmful in the long term.[/quote]
This is one of the funniest things I have ever read. I valued being raised by a woman with a brain who likes to use it, who didn’t have to rely on others and who did things that garnered professional respect. Who set an example for her children that they could be whatever they wanted—yes they could be cleaners/child minders if they wanted, but they could also have real careers.

You’re not doing your kids any favoris with those outdated claptrap. I knew kids with parents like this, they universally rolled their eyes the second the overbearing mom was out of sight.

@Quit4me
You have just done it again though. It is irrelevant what the reasons for working are, you have just told me I have harmed my child.

Not giving this to a child in my view is harmful in the long term.

What was my solution? What should I have done?

@Quit4me

You think that I'm neglectful because I choose to work rather than live on the breadline and eek out every penny.

I think that I sent my daughter to an outstanding nursery and she got to spend a day a week with her nana which she loved, those experiences combined with the time DH and I spend with her have contributed to her being a bright, confident, hilarious, wonderful little girl and have in no way detrimentally impacted her development or sense of self.

I feel like you're going to feel judged whatever you do if you're not happy with your choice, or with what your life circumstances have decided for you. People who make judgments either way are just trying to justify the choices they made.

Nothing is more important and personally I would live in a crap area / go without what ever I could to be able to raise my child and not palm my children over to someone else to do it for me.

I palmed mine off on DH who is a SAHD. Is that acceptable?

@broadstrokes

Bloody hell can you hear yourselves?

Those of you who are patronising sahms and assuming they can't handle the big bad world without hubby around, or don't have the nouse to sort out their own pension provision, or don't have anything better to do than meddle in other people's lives are demonstrating the very same "blinkered" and "narrow" thinking that you are attributing to sahms! If it wasn't so patronising I'd be laughing tbh!

But by all means, just throw all sahms in to the same pot and classify them as "lazy", "boring" "passive" and "stupid" ...and best of all ..."daytime alcoholics".

All of the sahms I know would be more than justified in calling themselves busy. One is the wife of a circuit judge who combines raising four DC with a major voluntary role that involves highly skilled PR, political lobbying and public speaking. One is the long term partner of someone in the military who's DH is away from the family home approx six months of the year , who raises two DC and is heavily involved in forces welfare, and another is an expat , a mother of three, who is tackling nurseries, schools, hospital appts, accommodation, school voluntary work, not only a different language, but in a different alphabet, while her DH travels the globe (in normal times). None of these women fit in to the "lazy" "boring" "so passive they hide in their own comfort zone" described here. Nor do they deserve such insults. All of them I would describe as independent, brave and intelligent women, fully engaged with the outside world. None of them have particularly tidy homes. And none of them are ladies who lunch or who spend long hours at the tennis club or hairdresser. So fuck off please with your patronising and insulting assumptions!

No one is disagreeing that there are exceptions but a large proportion of SAHM are simply doing the school runs and idling around the supermarket in between. Most I know have nothing else going on and have very little topics of conversation. It’s usually petty playground gossip.

Why not give your kids the great example of working and being able provide for yourself and do something of value?

My exDHs parent was a SAHM and he had so little work ethic it was unreal. I am confident her attitude to the world of work after having DC was was partly to blame.

I palmed mine off on DH who is a SAHD. Is that acceptable?

It depends, have you lost respect for him because he is now so boring to talk to?

@Quit4me isn’t it weird how many of the children with overbearing, obsessive parents who “sacrifice everything for the children” turn out exactly the same as their peers, or if anything end up lacking the necessary independence to do well in the world? Beyond children with special needs, I have yet to meet any who have genuinely benefited from having a “24/7 mommy” beyond 6 years old.

The only time I judge is if someone tries to talk up what they're doing. You know the kind of crap about "I'm a chauffeur, nanny, accountant" etc or people who give a blow by blow account of mundane chores. But then I feel the same about people who talk up their jobs and give blow by blow accounts of employment activities as well. So it's just competitive busy-ness I judge.

Work is pretty boring really and merely having a job does not necessarily ensure a person is rounded/content/nice to be around.

You know the kind of crap about "I'm a chauffeur, nanny, accountant" etc or people who give a blow by blow account of mundane chores. But then I feel the same about people who talk up their jobs and give blow by blow accounts of employment activities as well

Yy to all of that.

It depends, have you lost respect for him because he is now so boring to talk to?

to be honest, we’re both pretty wiped out by the time DS is in bed so we can be contentedly boring together before going to bed at about 9. Now I’m wondering if DH is tired from all the day drinking.

Nothing is more important and personally I would live in a crap area / go without what ever I could to be able to raise my child and not palm my children over to someone else to do it for me.

People have different priorities though. A lot of people move to desirable areas and take on bigger mortgages to get their children into good schools, or work longer to pay for private schools because they want the best for their children, not because they dont care about them!
(That's not to say people who dont do this are lesser parents, or that private school is the best option, I'm just saying there are differing views and neither is right or wrong)

Now I’m wondering if DH is tired from all the day drinking.

Just drowning his sorrows in advance of all the affairs you'll embark upon to compensate for the lack of double income. Bless.

I don't think SAHPs are lazy, my mum was one. I do think it's prudent for any parent who doesn't have an income to ensure that's factored into financial planning though.

I don't have to work but choose too, similar to many of my friends, apparently that makes me very strange on here as "I'm palming my dc off all day" when I don't need too.
I had 13 months off with each mat leave and put older dc in childcare still & despite the fact i'm tto I still book my dc into holiday clubs & they also do after school activities. It's their choice & they enjoy it, same as I did.

I dont judge, I have been both.

SAHM's without financial independence make me feel anxious though, but only because it bit me in the bum and I wouldn't want others to go through what I did.

Nothing is more important and personally I would live in a crap area / go without what ever I could to be able to raise my child and not palm my children over to someone else to do it for me.

See there it is, I was still reading the thread! If I was a SAHM I'd still palm my dc off sometimes, guess that makes me a shocking parent 🤷🏻‍♀️

SAHMs on working mums - you're all so neglectful

Working mums on SAHM - careless about finances when the kids are younger, lazy housewives when they're older.

Upthread I felt judged by SAHMs for CHOOSING to work (note - financially we could have afforded for me not to work). This thread has shown me that you camt really win whatever you choose, so im just going to get on with things

No one is disagreeing that there are exceptions but a large proportion of SAHM are simply doing the school runs and idling around the supermarket in between

How do you know they are idling around supermarkets though? Why do you assume that? I work pt ATM but I was a sahp for a decade and I have never idled around a supermarket in my entire life. I usually had one eye on the clock and the school pick up. Where I live, the school day is very short and the school holidays very long. And beyond close family, very few people asked me what I did when in actual fact I was studying and volunteering and learning two languages as well as doing usual sahm duties. Sorry but it's really insulting to continually make these lazy assumptions. The world has changed. Very few sahps of either sex are sitting on their arses eating chocolates while their DC are in school. I know lots and lots of families and none of the sahps fit the lazy stereotypes so glibly described here.

Also it's really outdated to think a mother has to be glued to a child for the first 5 yrs, SAHPs are relatively new & often children were looked after my other relatives plus mothers didn't have the mod cons to free up their time. My gran was a SAHP with 7 dc, no microwave, dishwasher, washing machine, online shopping, freezer etc, she had far less time with her dc then I do.