If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

And if your job is so boring, you could do something else? Start a business, write a book, get a different job... the options are endless. No one is forcing you to sit stapling all day but yourself.

@OrangeSamphire

And if your job is so boring, you could do something else? Start a business, write a book, get a different job... the options are endless. No one is forcing you to sit stapling all day but yourself.

I do plenty of other interesting things in my free time. I like my job. It's easy and means I can forget about work as soon as I leave for the day. I don't want my life to revolve around work. That's why I find it strange that some people can't seem to imagine how to have a fulfilling life without work.

My job is creative, but in terms of its value to society , my SAHM neighbour who volunteers at the covid vaccination centre would be infinitely more valuable.

@Waxonwaxoff0 My DH says the same about retiring - he has so many hobbies and interests and can't wait to retire (next few years, hopefully) but so many of his colleagues have very little outside their career to look forward to. (Highly intelligent & creative area - one I left a few years ago, and really haven't missed!).
We both have a great deal of active interesting existence away from work to plan for. The politics and corporate nonsense will certainly not be missed.

@OrangeSamphire I agree

@OrangeSamphire Rather a lot of jobs are quite mundane, but are still essential to an organisation - still need to be done by someone.
I don't know many people who are fortunate enough to have a fulfilling job they love and that works for their home life. I do know a lot of career women in lots of different sectors, and there are compromises that have to be made. I suppose that's where the outsourcing comes in.

Underneath all the divisiveness of this perpetual SAHM/WOHM argument I think there is a quiet rising of a number of women (and men) who are finding ways to creatively weave together a career and being a fully present care giver to their children.

This feels like a positive shift.

Both DH and I have made this shift. We both work ‘full time’ but manage our lives in the way we want to.

We have two disabled children (one of whom is home educated) so we have to be creative in how we build a life that is fulfilling for all of us.

I suppose this is why I am surprised when I see some SAHMs on here talk about how they spend their days ‘running the household’ while the children are at school and they do little else.

There were whole threads running on here for a while where people would list what they had done that day. Most of it was housework.

Do you work from home @OrangeSamphire? Genuinely interested in how you have set things up as I am in a similar situation (one child needs to be home educated), and would find it difficult to work in a location other than my home.

Hi @LizzieAnt yes I do. Without being totally outing I am a partner in a firm I co-founded. Before that I worked freelance for years.

I also write for a living (fiction and non fiction) and can do that from anywhere. This used to be a hobby but is now another income stream.

In non-covid times I do travel for client meetings but keep that to a minimum so no more than 1-2 times a month.

Post covid I’ll probably take a desk in a co-working space for a day a week and DH and I will rotate using it.

Thanks very much @OrangeSamphire, much appreciated.

I haven't ever felt judged in real life but on this forum I have read all the negative stuff posters come up with about SAHMs over the years and it used to annoy me and make me feel like I had to justify my life choices.

I'm 15 years into being a SAHM now and 50 years old so I don't get upset by stuff on here now. I'm happy and fulfilled and our set up works for us as a family.

I have many SAHM friends at the same stage of life as me and lots of friends my age who have worked all the way through raising their families. We all rub along fine. If they are judging me they don't let me know and my close friends know what my journey has been so understand why I'm where I am. I certainly don't judge working mothers.

I never intended to be a long term SAHM but circumstances have dictated it.

I don’t judge because it doesn’t affect me what others do with their lives.

Personally, it’s not for me as I would then have to rely on a man for money which I would never do.

Im not sure that everyone in the uk who wants a fullfilling job that us creative and stretches them intellectually and pays ok can have one. There simply isnt enough. And even if as an individual i could get a more exciting job, the mundane stuff still has to be done by someone. I like my job but its by far the dullest bit of my life. I interviewed for a hell of a lot of jobs and sent my cv off for even more to get this one.

I’ve worked pt as a mum of one, been a sahm and now I work ft. I can honestly say I have never at any stage felt bored or lacking in things to do. I have lots of hobbies, love outdoor activities and had lots of sahm friends. I also travelled a couple of times a year and never felt guilty going abroad for a few days as my kids had me all the time (even Covid aside, I wouldn’t do that now as I don’t spend as much time with the dc).

I did feel judged by some woth mums, but I tend to think it was those who weren’t really happy with their own lot, most were far too busy living their own lives to care. I had a great life, spent lots of time with the kids, we didn’t struggle for money and there was and is plenty to divvy up in the event of a divorce so it really worked for us.

That being said, it was extremely tough to go back to work after such a large gap. I had to retrain and was very lucky that a family contact was in the industry I joined and gave me a shot. It was also tough for my kids, particularly the youngest, who were used to having me there all the time when I suddenly wasn’t there every drop off and pick up. Dh also went through a period of adjustment assuming that I could still do everything that I had previously.

It’s difficult to compare but it was much easier being a sahm. Being honest I have missed it this year. I hate the feeling of guilt that comes from not having time for the kids and I constantly feel stretched. But I do love my job and I hope that once things return to some sort of normality these feelings will pass. I’m certainly not rushing to give up everything I have worked for.

Why not @MildredPuppy? People can carve their own paths. A shitty job doesn’t have to be forever. They can be a necessity but it is possible to plan a route out.

@OrangeSamphire Why do you describe a job that can be left at the door, and works to support a person's life choices as 'shitty'?

OrangeSamphire - But someone has to do my job. Its not shitty by the way. Its very nice. It doesnt make it intellectually fullfilling or creative though and if a job was shitty thank goodness someone does it because i bet its important.

I am grateful i am able to work part time hours around my child with complex SEN who doesnt have a school place and cant access ANY childcare. Its a real luxury,

Everyone makes different choices; we have different strengths and interests and lifestyles. It's rather arrogant to judge harshly those that don't have a similar setup. (Many really don't have those choices in the first place)

I've only ever felt judged as a SAHM on MN.
I don't judge parents for working or not working. Once I felt a woman I met was trying to justify the fact she worked to me, it was following a very brief conversation so I don't think I gave her any reason to think I was judging her.

I think Covid will change the landscape quite considerably for many people. Of course it's challenging to have both parents working 100 hour weeks with 2 hour commute and 50% time spent on international travel. But as the last year has shown, this is actually not mandatory for many jobs. You can have an interesting job mainly working from home and fit around the childcare needs. I work full time (and get paid very well) but while there are some meetings I need to take into account, I can do most of my work whenever I please - so can easily drop DC to school, pick them up, spend time with them and catch up later. Same for DH.

Only thing to be mindful of is that even when both partners are working from home, the homeschooling period has also shown that the man shuts himself in the study and 'can't be disturbed as he's working' while the woman is the one expected to juggle children and her own work. This has to be sorted out.

Honestly, I feel like I have very little in common with my SAHM friends as their conversions revolve around kids/fitness/household. But other than that I respect their choices.

The only thing I don't understand is why so many people assume being a SAHM is more demanding than working full time? If anything, it seems much easier and more relaxed than a full-time, rewarding, fast-paced job.

I think how demanding it is depends very much on the number and ages of the children, and whether they have any additional needs snowcobra.

I never understand these threads.

If you have to/ want to work, that's fine.
If you don't have to/ don't want to, then don't.

There really is nothing more to say, you can argue who has it harder, but I prefer to keep my life simple and do as I please. Life shouldn't be an endless set of chores, enjoy yourselves it's later than you think.

@Devlesko Nice quote

I am at present a SAHM to our 19 month old. I don't feel judged, why would I? As long as I am happy with my choice & it works for us as a family, , it really doesn't concern me what others think.

Most of my friends WFT, the ones with kids, most work PT. Covid has skewed things obviously but I certainly don't feel like we don't have things in common anymore solely based on who works and who doesn't! I think you would have to have had a pretty shallow friendship to begin with if you base everything on that!

It works for us as a family & I get to spend all day with my DC. I had planned to go back part time (3 days a week) after 1 year but when it came to it, I couldn't do it, I felt very emotional about it all and would get very upset about he prospect of leaving Dc at a nursery. I had a good job too, loved the company and the people, so that wasn't an issue.

I will definitely go back to work eventually, once dc is at pre school but we would like another dc soon so in the happy event I do fall pregnant this year, I won't be going back to work for another 2/3 years most likely.

I just want to point out that nobody should be judging other mothers on their choices to either be a SAHM or to go back to work - its none of your business & you shouldn't be so invested in what someone else is doing...focus on your own family!