If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

I don't judge.
You do what's best for your family and yourself.

@Devlesko you pity my “poor child”?
She’s very happy, loved and encouraged to fulfil her potential. I would be so concerned if her financial security was compromised because she relied on a partner for money.
I’m raising her to be independent, a great mother and also pursue a career. That’s the aim! Nothing to pity at all.

Middle the vast majority of charities do not have paid staff, you must realise that.

@Ragwort that’s not true, the higher end roles are very well paid. I have a friend who works for the BHF on a six figure salary.
Shop workers etc may be voluntary, but the more senior roles in charities are paid very handsomely.

I agree that volunteers provide a range of really important services in the community, but I'm not really sure why we're talking about voluntary work on a thread about SAHPs?

In my experience, volunteers include SAHPs, WOHPs, people whose kids have already left home and people who don't have any kids. There is no one group that dominates.

If someone is not in paid employment, but does significant work in a voluntary capacity, then they are not really a SAHP but an unpaid worker.

So why are we talking about voluntary work?

Lots of SAHM do quite a lot in their community - in primary schools (pre-pandemic), pta, reading support, marshalling, school trips, extra-curricular support, running Guides & Scouts groups. The local library is only run (pre-pandemic) by volunteers, otherwise it wouldn't be viable. There's a whole world outside of the office.

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@camaieux but your point is moot because she is working. She’s not a SAHP.
You’ve argued you know a very intelligent and driven SAHM, who in fact it turns out does work.[/quote]
Yes and I repeat my point that she is one of the many sahms who are nonetheless all lumped together and classed as "lazy" and "ignorant" by some posters on here, when she is nothing of the sort. And this applies to many sahms in all sorts of different situations. So blanket assumptions like this are deeply unhelpful.

im a part time working mum , 12 yr old dd lives with me , her dad and i split up when she was a baby , i dont judge sahm , i never give it any thought , im sure its hard sometimes and there are downsides to it , just as there are downsides to being a working mum and its hard sometimes , nothing it ever perfect or super easy , thats just life . the only issue i have is that i feel a lot of mothers are forced really to have to work when theyd rather not , as its not like it was back in the day so to speak , and this goverment wants women to work , employers are meant to be flexible to mothers and in my experiance are anything but ! my own company is reprofiling our hours yet again and our childcare needs come second to the business , even got asked why i couldnt work late evenings , err because i dont want to leave my 12 year old on her own maybe , those are the issues that i have a problem with , not what mothers choose to do , i still think , work , stay at home , its not made easy for us by the goverment or by many employers

No, I wouldn't fancy it myself, but makes no odds to me what others do. Being in paid employment isn't a marker of success or whatever. The only time I feel anything in particular is if a woman doesn't have a choice and has to be a SAHM even though it's not what they want, just as if someone has to return to work and in an ideal world wouldn't.

@camaieux but she’s not a SAHM.
You’re arguing apples are oranges at this point
I was the poster who said I do judge parents of school aged, who have healthy school aged kids, they themselves are healthy and choose not to work. I would consider it lazy.
Your friend is working, there is no “lumping in”. She’s not sitting at home all day, she’s working.

BHF is a very large national charity. Community charities do not have the cash reserves to pay staff and deal with the employment structure that goes with it. All precious revenues are used to greatest benefit and are audited annually by the charities commission. Volunteers may be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses.

@Ragwort

Middle you do appreciate that so many community initiatives are run by volunteers. You may not find the work of a Food Bank 'amazing' (to use the terminology in the earlier post) but you must surely understand the impact it has on the local community?

Of course it's sad that Food Banks are necessary, but without
volunteers they would just fold. So many volunteer led activities are completely unseen by many people ... do you have elderly relatives who enjoy going to a lunch club or using volunteer transport (pre Covid) - do you ever give thought to how these are organised and run? Or local Mother and Baby groups, community run playgroups etc - all low cost activities essential for many new parents who cannot afford 'private' groups ... and all volunteer led.

You can't just say 'if these things are needed they should be paid for'... by whom?

During my time as a SAHM I spent years running a community mother and toddler group, volunteered for the local scout group, did a morning a week at a foodbank, was a parent volunteer in school, chaired various committees and did a lot of fundraising events organisation.

I didn't earn a penny for any of that, and maybe some WOHPs would have judged me as a result. All of the 'not earning your own money and living off your husband's income' criticisms would perhaps have been valid. But I worked really hard, and I can't believe that none of my voluntary work would be seen as having no value simply because I didn't get paid for it. Rightly or wrongly, many community activities are entirely or largely reliant on volunteers.

I work now, and I absolutely love my 'paid' job. But if I'm honest my time as a SAHM, juggling all the above voluntary roles at different times, was far more stressful and demanding than being a WOHM now.

In answer to the OP"s question - I try not to judge anyone - whether WOHP or SAHP - because you never know anyone's full story.

I don't know any SAHM who 'sits at home' every day!!
I think the most judgemental folk on this thread seem to have a very limited life-experience.

I do realise it - I know a great deal about that sector. That doesn’t really have anything to do with my point that I don’t consider pp’s “oxbridge” friend ‘amazing’ for doing lots of voluntary work because she’s lucky enough not to have to work a paid job.

Well, voluntary work aside (as that is work, not disputing that)... what exactly do SAHP’s of school aged children do all day that working parents don’t do when they get home?

@MiddleParking not to mention her extensive career before hand and double first to fall back on if she so decides.

I am back to be a SAHP now. I worked full time from home in a very complicated, stressful role with three young children at home with me. Dh often goes away for work. It was hell. Being a SAHP works for us ultimately. Yes, some judged me for it pre-covid. One other parent only would talk to be after I managed to find full.time work. But it doesn't matter when they think. I don't judge working parents either. We all have to do what works best for us.

Well, voluntary work aside (as that is work, not disputing that)... what exactly do SAHP’s of school aged children do all day that working parents don’t do when they get home

Whatever we want?

@YouJustDoYou but like what? I’m not being goads but there’s only so much housework to be done, so much of your time must be spent doing leisure activities or socialising (outside of covid times)?

goady*

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@Devlesko you pity my “poor child”?
She’s very happy, loved and encouraged to fulfil her potential. I would be so concerned if her financial security was compromised because she relied on a partner for money.
I’m raising her to be independent, a great mother and also pursue a career. That’s the aim! Nothing to pity at all.[/quote]
Sounds like your aim though, and you said you'd be disappointed in her being a sahp, if that's what makes her happy, that's sad.
I've got a very ambitious dd who already says she doesn't want children.
She could change her mind, she might not.
Difference is I love her whatever she decides and I'd never be disappointed in a choice that made her happy, potential or not.

It's really none of anyone else's business though?

Difference is I love her whatever she decides and I'd never be disappointed in a choice that made her happy, potential or not
There’s no difference in how I love my DD! I would be disappointed for her because she has so much potential. If she was ultimately happy and financially secure independently from her partner then I wouldn’t give a toss to be honest. I would probably consider her lazy if she didn’t utilise her skills and education.

I am a SAHM to a 2 year old and 5 year old. It's an interesting question you have asked OP. In my experience, I find the older generation actually admire me for giving up a very senior role to be at home with the children. Those of my generation with kids don't really give a toss as to my status and those younger than me with kids don't normally realise what I , or the other SAHM's I am friends with do. I don't judge others as its none of my business how they want to live their life ( I have a mix of friends who work and stay at home) however, I do judge myself as I feel pretty worthless some days doing all the drudge work around the house as well as looking after 2 year old who has not started at any child care setting yet. I am a person who needs the challenge of work and whilst I fill my time with as much voluntary work as I can, I am very much looking forward to going back to work as without a doubt my identity has morphed into something I don't recognise or suits me somedays and I feel uncomfortable relying on DH financially, despite most things being in my name!

@DoubleTweenQueen

BHF is a very large national charity. Community charities do not have the cash reserves to pay staff and deal with the employment structure that goes with it. All precious revenues are used to greatest benefit and are audited annually by the charities commission. Volunteers may be reimbursed for out of pocket expenses.

This is not true. The majority of roles at charities are paid. Charities need full time, qualified, quality staff like any other organisation. They should not have to and do not rely on part time SAHPs who can come and go on a whim and who probably lack the relevant experience. For most charities which provided services to the community, the majority of their costs are salary costs.

Unpaid roles would include, say, working in an Oxfam shop for a few hours a week, or being a trustee- which is an important role but a very low time commitment.