If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

@MiddleParking

Presumably taking a space at ‘oxbridge’ from one of the many, many talented candidates who just miss out and who might have put it to some use. It is irritating when privileged SAHMs complain that they want to be considered just as conventionally high-achieving as they would have been if they hadn’t made that choice.

You'd be amazed at what my friend has achieved in her unpaid voluntary role despite being a "lazy" and "unintelligent" sahm according to some on here. Believe me, her studies and work experience have been put to very good use helping others in the community.

I wouldn't be disappointed in my dd if she chose to become a SAHP, but I would be worried for her if I'm honest.

I bet I wouldn’t, frankly.

I don't think people in significant unpaid voluntary roles can really be counted as SAHP, can they? How is that any different to working, apart from the fact they don't get paid?

@camaieux good for her! Sounds like she isn’t a SAHM though, she just works for free because she’s financially comfortable enough to be able to do so.

@AlexaShutUp exactly my point.

I would love to know what unpaid voluntary role makes an impact that I would apparently be amazed by. Whatever it is, if it’s so amazing and high achieving and valuable to the community then someone should be being paid for it, and I don’t think that rich people deserve plaudits for devaluing important work by doing it for free.

No, I feel lucky!

I've been both. I don't judge. I like different bits about both.

Sometimes I get the feeling people do judge me. Certainly I'm the only one of my close friends not to work but I'm pretty useless and doubt I'll ever have a "proper" job again. My own judging is far worse than anything anyone else can do. I became a sahm accidently because I had postpartum psychosis after dc1 was born, then I was diagnosed with ptsd from an old trauma that resurfaced during my psychosis. Was just starting to benefit from therapy when I found out in quick succession that I was pregnant again and my dad's cancer was back. They stopped my therapy and my dad died when I was six months pregnant. My youngest is two.

I graduate again this year and I do loads of voluntary work including chairing a committee but I'm so scared of another trauma based relapse, getting a job in the sort of sectors I used to work in seems impossible.

!! Who's going to pay for charitable work in the community??

I graduate again this year and I do loads of voluntary work including chairing a committee

Whatever else you are, you clearly aren't useless @Dinosauratemydaffodils. It sounds like you have had a lot to contend with over the years.

@DoubleTweenQueen

!! Who's going to pay for charitable work in the community??

A charity?

@Dinosauratemydaffodils

Sometimes I get the feeling people do judge me. Certainly I'm the only one of my close friends not to work but I'm pretty useless and doubt I'll ever have a "proper" job again. My own judging is far worse than anything anyone else can do. I became a sahm accidently because I had postpartum psychosis after dc1 was born, then I was diagnosed with ptsd from an old trauma that resurfaced during my psychosis. Was just starting to benefit from therapy when I found out in quick succession that I was pregnant again and my dad's cancer was back. They stopped my therapy and my dad died when I was six months pregnant. My youngest is two.

I graduate again this year and I do loads of voluntary work including chairing a committee but I'm so scared of another trauma based relapse, getting a job in the sort of sectors I used to work in seems impossible.

I think this is a reminder to us all that we don't know why any mother is going anything. Best wishes to you

I think some of it is a defensive mechanism to judge fast first before we get judged because of all the bitchy comments from resentful outliers in both camps.

One important thing to note here... firstly your friend is working, she’s just not getting paid for it.

Yes of course she is but I don't see many posters on here who are making blanket criticisms of sahms (assuming they are "lazy" and "unintelligent") who are making that distinction.

Cleaners and wraparound care / after school childminders etc are a lot easier to afford if you’re earning a wage and was the outsourcing I was referring to. What other household chores could really be that impossible to outsource that working parents don’t do as well as actually working?

You can outsource a lot of things but the resulting quality can be varied. Its certainly not the same sometimes as doing it yourself. But generaly there's good and bad aspects to both. But please don't tell me that one is always automatically superior to the other! And however easy you continue to portray it in theory, it often is quite problematic in practice. A great deal depends on where you live , how many dc you have in how many different schools, and what hours you work (shifts etc).

@JeanClaudeVanDammit thank you, I’m not sure if it was unhappiness or not. I’m just glad I am away from the group now. My mental health has been much better since I stepped away! There were a lot of comments about how amazing a role model they were being for their kids by working, it all just made me feel shit about it all and very isolated, especially as I was struggling to find work. Anyway, all done now and in the past, we send the odd message but for the most part I ignore the group. It just made me realise there is a real divide between working an non working mums.

Small community charities have trustees, not employees. Have you ever been involved in one?

I wouldn't say I judge it, but I cannot comprehend why you would willingly be unemployed/rely on someone else to pay your way for you - regardless of whether you have a child or not.

We've had so many different lifestyles, I couldn't give a monkies what anyone says, or thinks tbh.
You make your own choices in life and it has nothing to do with anyone else.
Anyone who doesn't like it is usually jealous or not happy themselves.

Middle you do appreciate that so many community initiatives are run by volunteers. You may not find the work of a Food Bank 'amazing' (to use the terminology in the earlier post) but you must surely understand the impact it has on the local community?

Of course it's sad that Food Banks are necessary, but without
volunteers they would just fold. So many volunteer led activities are completely unseen by many people ... do you have elderly relatives who enjoy going to a lunch club or using volunteer transport (pre Covid) - do you ever give thought to how these are organised and run? Or local Mother and Baby groups, community run playgroups etc - all low cost activities essential for many new parents who cannot afford 'private' groups ... and all volunteer led.

You can't just say 'if these things are needed they should be paid for'... by whom?

@MiddleParking

I would love to know what unpaid voluntary role makes an impact that I would apparently be amazed by. Whatever it is, if it’s so amazing and high achieving and valuable to the community then someone should be being paid for it, and I don’t think that rich people deserve plaudits for devaluing important work by doing it for free.

You don't think rich people should do charity work?

(My friend is not particularly rich or poor BTW, somewhere in the middle.)

@camaieux but your point is moot because she is working. She’s not a SAHP.
You’ve argued you know a very intelligent and driven SAHM, who in fact it turns out does work.

Yes, I have - lots. Charities do indeed have trustees, which doesn’t indicate that they don’t also have paid staff. In any event, what on earth is your point?

@blowinahoolie

"You'd be disappointed in your daughter for doing what makes her happy in life?! Wtf"

Crazy isn't it. What a world we live in.

Isn't it sad that someone wouldn't want happiness for their daughter, over what they themselves want from life. Very you have to pity the poor child.

@Dinosauratemydaffodils that sounds so tough. You’ve been through a lot and your child is still so young, you’re doing great