If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

I've been both as a single parent. In my experience being a sahm is far, far easier than working full time and juggling children, school, and home. Being at home with the children was a doddle. Each to their own but it does annoy me when sahm say that it's really difficult

@ufucoffee same here.
I actually do an internal eye roll when I hear sahm’s complaining about how hard it is (parents of SEN kids excluded obviously)... the only thing hard about it is the sheer boredom.

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03/04/2021 15:09 WaterBottle123

I don't judge them, I worry for them, given the 50 percent probability of divorce. It's an insane gamble to take on your own financial security. Also I suppose I worry it might encourage their daughters to do the same, thus setting them up to be financially vulnerable.“

Never been an issue, everything is legally 50/50. Wouldn’t have had it any other way (either of us).

32 years on, some assets are in my name alone. We trust each other. It’s not so rare as some seem to think.

@SpongebobNoPants

It depends... I judge SAHM’s who live solely on the income of their partner and/or benefits. Also those with kids who are all of school age, I’d find it hard to respect them to be honest. Sounds harsh but I would probably think they’re lazy or not very bright.

Do you ever stop to consider that you might be wrong about them being lazy or not very bright?

Surely it depends on how many dc they have, their dc's health, their own health, the sizes of their house(s), their dependents, how much cleaning help they have or not, whether they live near family who help out or not, how much their oh is involved at home or not, or if they work away, how much they volunteer, whether they live in a country where the holidays are long etc? And how do you know what their financial situation is? I am sure most people assume I am financially dependent on my dh but as it happens I'm not, and not one of my friends knows that. And surely intelligence has very little to do with any of those things. One of my best friends has a double first from Oxbridge and has been a sahm for many years. And prior to the pandemic, she was doing a lot of good in the community too.

It's the certainty of these assumptions that irritate me, and dare I say it, it's not very intelligent to assume that all sahms share similar negative characteristics!

@camaieux ill health / SEN aside I still can’t fathom why someone who is intelligent and capable would not want to work.
The size of your house, family help etc is all irrelevant, if you’re working you could outsource those things.
If all kids and the SAHP are well and kids of school age, then yes I would consider it the lazy choice and not one I would want to do myself.

I’m talking about people I actually know by the way, that’s how I know (at least roughly) financial situations, the school holidays etc.

Looking after healthy school aged children and a household is not a full time job. Most women manage to do everything SAHP’s do and work, often full time.

One of my best friends has a double first from Oxbridge and has been a sahm for many years. And prior to the pandemic, she was doing a lot of good in the community too
I would be so disappointed if my DD did this. I can’t imagine not having the drive to want to have a good career, especially when she is clearly so capable.

I desperately wanted to go back to work but I ended up backing away from the group as a lot of comments started to be made about how it was damaging for a child to not be in nursery from a social point of view.

Sorry you experienced that. I’m not a fan of the “they’re just jealous/unhappy with their own choices” comments but those do sound like the comments of people unhappy with their situation.

I don’t know anyone who really thinks nursery is better until the kids are over 3. I hold no truck with it being harmful either, but it’s not superior to time at home with a parent or other caregiver.

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@ufucoffee same here.
I actually do an internal eye roll when I hear sahm’s complaining about how hard it is (parents of SEN kids excluded obviously)... the only thing hard about it is the sheer boredom.[/quote]
More judging

More to life than money. Some of us have DC who have additional needs and have regular appointments at clinics and hospitals. Not just for shits and giggles 🙄 don't have time for a job. Both WOHMs and SAHMs do fantastically well in different ways. I am glad there are women who are able to juggle it all out there, but some of us it would be an impossible task to hold down a job. Horses for courses.

@SpongebobNoPants

One of my best friends has a double first from Oxbridge and has been a sahm for many years. And prior to the pandemic, she was doing a lot of good in the community too I would be so disappointed if my DD did this. I can’t imagine not having the drive to want to have a good career, especially when she is clearly so capable.

You'd be disappointed in your daughter for doing what makes her happy in life?! Wtf

Presumably taking a space at ‘oxbridge’ from one of the many, many talented candidates who just miss out and who might have put it to some use. It is irritating when privileged SAHMs complain that they want to be considered just as conventionally high-achieving as they would have been if they hadn’t made that choice.

@ceilingroaz I’ve admitted several times I do judge them
Having lived both sides of it, being a SAHP is far easier (but less fulfilling / enjoyable) than working.

The post asked for honest opinions, so I’ve given mine. Yes, in lieu of extenuating circumstances such as ill health /additional needs / pre school aged children, I do judge SAHP’s to a certain extent.

@ceilingroaz I’d be disappointed if she didn’t utilise the opportunities afforded to her so she could stay at home playing housewife.

"You'd be disappointed in your daughter for doing what makes her happy in life?! Wtf"

Crazy isn't it. What a world we live in.

When the kids were younger worked part time so it was a happy medium , happy mum and happy kids
Being on furlough this year it was great being there for the kids 24/7
Now they are back at school and i’m
still on furlough god I miss
them and I want to be back at work could not be the sahm mum I thought I wanted to be

I actually found being at home with newborn/toddler quite hard, and tbh quite lonely. I missed adult conversation! (And I had DC without illness or any additional needs)
However being on furlough with much older DC I was looking forward to going back to work because I was bored at home.

[quote SpongebobNoPants]@ceilingroaz I’d be disappointed if she didn’t utilise the opportunities afforded to her so she could stay at home playing housewife.[/quote]
You sound bitter and jealous

@buymycurlers not at all! I love my career! Definitely not jealous, I could be a SAHP but I really couldn’t imagine anything worse tbh

How is it bitter or jealous not to hope that your daughter works to support herself? Is it bitter or jealous to want your son to work?

I haven't ready the thread and I can see this is something that has caused lots of controversy by the many posts.

I'm a full time working mum and have no choice over that. I suppose at times I've been jealous of those who can stay at home. Even when I was married, I couldn't have not gone back to work because of the life style we had become used to. I don't mean socialising or anything, but we bought a house young and our mortgage needed both our salaries.
Now I'm divorced I definitely don't have a choice . But actually, if I hadn't had made those choices when they were babies, I wouldn't have my own home now and be able to support myself and have a fairly comfortable life.

I've had many a snide remark over the years. Including the 'why have children if they are going to strangers all day'. How fucking insulting! And to my face too! How the hell did you think I would react? You seemed shocked! .

The only time I've judged a sahm (and I live in an area where many of my friends are lucky enough to have the lifestyle that allows them a v comfortable life as a sahm and I genuinely have become close to them and honestly don't judge despite what I'm about to say) is when she bleats to me as to how busy she is and how she needs her perfectly wonderful hands on partner to do more. Read the room, love! This woman (in fact, more than one) has said this more than once and I don't know how I haven't lost my shit. Surely my face at the time says it all!

Oh, the other one that pisses me off is 'full-time mummy'. What am I? Part time? Am I only a mum when I'm with my children?!

I've been shielding so there has been a massive change of routine (I'm working from home). It has made a difference to my DC to be able to collect them from school instead of them doing after-school club. I'd love to be able to do that. I can deft see the appeal from the other side. There honestly can't be the option for most people nowadays though. Not unless you were relying on benefits or had a particularly well off partner. I will be advising my own girls not to be sahm. But I'd wish for them to be able to be part time for a few years. I'd have loved to be able to afford to do this.

@user1471530109 I completely agree with the “full time mummy” phrase.. aside from it being a twee way of saying they don’t work, we’re all full time parents.

No. I dont judge, I dont care tbh. I have my own shit to worry about that I perceive I'm judged for.

Live and let live.

@SpongebobNoPants

One of my best friends has a double first from Oxbridge and has been a sahm for many years. And prior to the pandemic, she was doing a lot of good in the community too I would be so disappointed if my DD did this. I can’t imagine not having the drive to want to have a good career, especially when she is clearly so capable.

My Oxbridge friend had a good career before having DC! She's been a sahm for the past 14 years and prior to Covid had a very responsible voluntary role. And I've no doubt she will do something interesting and inspiring post pandemic because she's that sort of person. Whether its paid or not is irrelevant in terms of its validity imho. And I happen to know her parents are very proud of her.

ill health / SEN aside I still can’t fathom why someone who is intelligent and capable would not want to work.

Well I can fathom it and can think of lots of reasons why. Not all "out-sourcing" is as available, affordable or trouble free as you suggest either. As has been repeated on here ad infinitum not everyone is the same, nor is everyone's family situation.

I judge them to be bloody amazing. Very in awe of SAHMs and enjoy friendships with them too. But I feel the need to work for me.

My Oxbridge friend had a good career before having DC! She's been a sahm for the past 14 years and prior to Covid had a very responsible voluntary role
One important thing to note here... firstly your friend is working, she’s just not getting paid for it.

Not all "out-sourcing" is as available, affordable or trouble free as you suggest either
Cleaners and wraparound care / after school childminders etc are a lot easier to afford if you’re earning a wage and was the outsourcing I was referring to. What other household chores could really be that impossible to outsource that working parents don’t do as well as actually working?