If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

@JSL52

Don't judge , just think it's odd when the kids are older. What do you do all day ? Hasn't your brain gone to mush ? I'd be bored to death. What about money ? You read on here women having no access to money. If you were on your own suddenly how would you manage ?

Some jobs are more likely to make one's brain turn to mush than being on your own house doing what you please.

Sahm should make sure they have the household salary going into a joint account

Life insurance and death in service payouts.So SAHMs aren't massively more vulnerable at all.

If properly insured there doesn't need to be a difference between SAHP and working parents in the event of death (depending on the level of insurance and if the parent is required to work for financial reasons after or not) but I believe the post that's been picked on is talking about death OR if the working parent leaves the SAHP, the latter of which is much more statistically likely to happen and no insurance for that, so yes many SAHPs will be much more vulnerable.

Both my mom and stepmom never worked and by golly they can fit nothing into a day and think one appointment in one day is a busy day. They have a very skewed sense of productivity. They also live in a bit of a bubble having never had to deal with the pressure of work or other's expectations.

My MIL gave up work at 22 to have her first child, and never went back to work. She is literally amazed that I can shower in 10 min, or make a roast in 2 hrs because she has the day to do things like have a shower and make dinner. She was incredulous that SIL invited some friends for dinner and went to the gym the same day...!
Most SAHM I know are nothing like this though.

I don't judge them, and I certainly don't rule them out as friends. I am more interested in what kind of person they are than in what they do for a living. Some of my friends were SAHMs when our dc were small, and we never struggled to find stuff to talk about. Most of them have gone back to work now that their kids are older.

I do judge the SAHPs who go on about how hard it is. I find myself wondering why they don't just go back to work if they are so miserable. I'm afraid that I don't have much time for martyrs, but I don't find that they are the majority at all.

I do worry for some SAHPs that haven't taken adequate steps to safeguard their financial independence, and also for those who seem to have lost their confidence as a result of being out of work. Regardless of paid employment status, I think it's important for everyone to have a sense of identity and purpose beyond the home/family, otherwise life may feel very empty when children fly the nest. However, there are different ways in which that can be achieved, and paid work is not the only option.

I wouldn't want anyone to end up like my mum, who desperately regrets her lack of career and her perception that she wasted her potential. So I would encourage SAHPs to look ahead to what the future holds and plan accordingly. No judgement, though.

@fizbosshoes

Both my mom and stepmom never worked and by golly they can fit nothing into a day and think one appointment in one day is a busy day. They have a very skewed sense of productivity. They also live in a bit of a bubble having never had to deal with the pressure of work or other's expectations.

My MIL gave up work at 22 to have her first child, and never went back to work. She is literally amazed that I can shower in 10 min, or make a roast in 2 hrs because she has the day to do things like have a shower and make dinner. She was incredulous that SIL invited some friends for dinner and went to the gym the same day...!
Most SAHM I know are nothing like this though.

I'll be honest, I'll never forget the poster on one of the semi-annual "what do you, SAHP of school aged kids, do all day?" who said, "There's always something that needs doing, on [X day] I need to put away the online shop"...

I had quite a similar experience to Blyatiful in that I faced criticism and disdain from SAHMs when my DC were younger including comments like 'yours have actually turned out quite well considering you weren't really there for them' or 'you poor thing, having to work' etc, often years later!
I agree also with the observation that once older, the kids with SAHMs seem less independent and from what I've seen, the SAHP is overly involved in their adult DC's lives, and not necessarily for the good! I think it's because the SAHP needs to justify their position and I've actually seen instances of them becoming quite clingy and stifling towards their older DC.
I have no issue whatsoever with SAHPs of young children but really do have to wonder how parents of secondary age can justify being at home all day? I think I would feel too disconnected to the real world and would feel I was just filling my days rather than having a real purpose in life.
I know that when I was on Mat Leave I didn't find weekends very enjoyable; they were just an extension of the week which I found was really like one long holiday. Perhaps I was lucky with my kids but I really didn't find it hard being at home.
Once I went back to work I really enjoyed my weekends, felt like I'd earned them even! Also, maybe I was really lucky with my kids but I found the days I was at home with them once they were school age so much easier than my working days (eg school holidays) so I really can't relate to those who claim being a SAHP of older kids is hard. Guess it depends on your job. Mine is certainly far harder than being at home.
Just admit it SAHMs of older kids - you've got an easy ride!

I'm afraid that I don't have much time for martyrs,

I think this is where conflict can occur in these debates. If you choose to be a SAHP to children it obviously will be relentless some days! Especially if they are babies/toddlers.

If you choose to be a SAHP to children it obviously will be relentless some days!

Sure, but being a working parent can be relentless some days too. All choices will have their challenges.

Tbh, I guess I just don't like spending too much time with anyone who whines about the choices that they have made - whether WOHP or SAHP.

Personally, I'm grateful that I have been able to maintain my career while having a family. I don't really care if others choose to do it differently, but I really don't like it when people start to get competitive about how hard their lives are. If you don't like your current circumstances, do something to change them.

I think this probably stems from frustration with my own mum who hated being a SAHP but didn't have the courage or confidence to do anything about it. Just do what makes you happy because your kids won't thank you for being a martyr.

@AlexaShutUp I had a full year off Mat leave with DS. Honestly I cannot understand a SAHP who makes that choice and then the majority of the day will be cooking cleaning and constant tidying after little ones. You don’t get 45 mins in peace to yourself for your lunch break.

Personally I think going to work can be stressful having to organise everything. Also it is a break from DS at the same time.

I agree you get no brownie points for anything in life.

I should add that I would think the same of a SAHD. I’d wonder at a healthy man of school age children who was unwilling so work.

@rainbowballs

I didn't say SAHPs were necessarily massively financiay disadvantaged if their earning partner dies? As long as they are on the mortgage and have the necessary insurances they won't be. However that won't help the SAHP whose partner buggers off with someone else and won't help them with NI contributions and ability to find paid work if they ever need/want it.

I'll be honest, I'll never forget the poster on one of the semi-annual "what do you, SAHP of school aged kids, do all day?" who said, "There's always something that needs doing, on [X day] I need to put away the online shop"...

I know several people like this but I wonder if it’s correlation or causation.

I think if you’re generally a bit useless and unproductive, you’re going to grasp the opportunity to be a SAHM with both hands, so those types are massively over represented in the SAHP population

Where as very productive, multitask-y types can carry on with the work-family juggle and might not jump at being a SAHP given the same financial situation because they easily handle the stress, juggle, whatever.

My mother was definitely the totally useless type who was never cut out for anything other than being a SAHM, and made a pretty dreadful fist of any job she tried but was far too proud to admit how useless she was, so had to endlessly talk up how important a job she had being at home for us

@rainbowballs if both are working then at least there is one income coming in, dp and I live a life where is one of us was to loose a job / die the the other could still pay bills etc. After being a single parent for years I can confidently say that I will never financially rely on anyone.

I would hate to have to ask for money from someone, to buy a their birthday / Xmas present.

Plus I can't imagine how I would feel if I was the working parent with a partner who is a sahm, I would totally resent working for all this money to share with my other half.

@GappyValley

I'll be honest, I'll never forget the poster on one of the semi-annual "what do you, SAHP of school aged kids, do all day?" who said, "There's always something that needs doing, on [X day] I need to put away the online shop"...

I know several people like this but I wonder if it’s correlation or causation.

I think if you’re generally a bit useless and unproductive, you’re going to grasp the opportunity to be a SAHM with both hands, so those types are massively over represented in the SAHP population

Where as very productive, multitask-y types can carry on with the work-family juggle and might not jump at being a SAHP given the same financial situation because they easily handle the stress, juggle, whatever.

My mother was definitely the totally useless type who was never cut out for anything other than being a SAHM, and made a pretty dreadful fist of any job she tried but was far too proud to admit how useless she was, so had to endlessly talk up how important a job she had being at home for us

Wow. So much for the sisterhood. Just lovely on here to see how disparaging some women are about other women on here.

And lovely to see how dismissive people are about their own mothers too. I would love to be on one of these threads in twenty years time and read how our DC judge us; because we are all just perfect aren't we?

People are individuals with all sorts of different skills and competencies. Just because you are suited say to being an artist working for long days alone at the kitchen table at home, , it doesn't necessarily follow that you are useless in other areas of life. Just as working in a fast paced busy work environment isn't the only valid contribution to family life that one can make. I hope that women feel empowered to make their own way in life in areas where they feel most fulfilled and happy , whether that is in the home or out at work. Thank heavens we are not all the same.

@bjjgirl

Plus I can't imagine how I would feel if I was the working parent with a partner who is a sahm, I would totally resent working for all this money to share with my other half.

Such a bad attitude.

My husband earns the money - yes. But I do everything around the house which has its own value. If I wasn't here he'd have to pay someone to do the cleaning etc or he'd be working pretty much all day, all week.

SAHMs are worth a lot to the household. Hence my husband doesn't 'resent' sharing his money, because it's our money.

I wouldn't say I judge but I do feel a bit pissed off on their behalf sometimes.. like one friend always has to ask for everything / money etc. from her husband and my other friend isn't even allowed to choose her own phone! I would just hate to not have financial independence. But each to their own!

@imamearcat

I wouldn't say I judge but I do feel a bit pissed off on their behalf sometimes.. like one friend always has to ask for everything / money etc. from her husband and my other friend isn't even allowed to choose her own phone! I would just hate to not have financial independence. But each to their own!

Fuck that. I have full access to the joint account.

My husband and I are a team.

Your friends have husband problems.

I am a SAHM with a husband who works long hours in a high flying career.

I think it's sad that many of you think you will have nothing in common with a SAHM. I have a first class degree and read widely on a huge range of interesting topics.

SAHMs might surprise you if you give them a chance!

@LolaSmiles

Onjnmoeiejducwoapy I think that's harsh because I'd be willing bet that once the children are in school, the dads aren't stepping up to do their fair share if mum goes back to work. What probably happens is: Mum looks at going back to work, and that requires wraparound care that's expected to come out of Mum's wages because she chose to go back to work, or Mum has to find a job that fits around 39 weeks a year 9am-3pm (really 9.30am-2.30pm if she has to do pick ups). When the children are unwell, mum has to take the day off. When there is a problem at school such as snow days or burst pipes, mum has to take the day off. If a child needs collecting from school due to illness or injury, mum has to take the day off. When the children have medical or dental appointments, mum has to take the day off. When the school holidays roll round, mum has to cover 13 weeks school holiday on her 5 weeks of annual leave and then sort holiday childcare out as well. After going to work, mum comes home and is still expected to cook and clean for everyone else because dad has been at work. Then at the weekends dad has to have half a day to himself because he has a big important job, and mum spends the weekend frantically trying to do everything else.

I'm sure there are men who do step up when their wives return to work, but there's enough threads on here that suggest many men think women going back to work means zero change on the domestic front.

You're absolutely right!!

@bathsoup

I am a SAHM with a husband who works long hours in a high flying career.

I think it's sad that many of you think you will have nothing in common with a SAHM. I have a first class degree and read widely on a huge range of interesting topics.

SAHMs might surprise you if you give them a chance!

Let's be fiends

I would resent it though as I would still do my share of cleaning / cooking / childcare - and work a full time job, there would be no need for a sahm if the labour decision of childcare/ household chores etc was split evenly

@bjjgirl

I would resent it though as I would still do my share of cleaning / cooking / childcare - and work a full time job, there would be no need for a sahm if the labour decision of childcare/ household chores etc was split evenly

Well that's on you.

I do my share so no resentment needed from either side.

I just think by working as a team and both working it is indeed fairer on both parties, that's my opinion, it doesn't make it more valued or correct than anyone else's, I have just contributed to the discussion when asked for an opinion.

@bjjgirl

Plus I can't imagine how I would feel if I was the working parent with a partner who is a sahm, I would totally resent working for all this money to share with my other half.

There's financial imbalance in a lot of relationships at some point or other though. Are people only meant to get along if they earn the same amount? For the vast majority of our relationship I have earned considerably more than my husband. Three times as much for quite a while. Fortunately I didn't resent sharing my income with him as now the boot is on the other foot as I've had to give up work due to ill health and he's had a promotion. We value each other for who we are, not what we earn.