If you're a SAHM, do you feel judged? And if you're a working mum, do you judge a SAHM?

[ItalianRed]

Hi,

So I've been out of work for 15 years, apart from a couple of part time jobs here and there. I have a teenager and so have the time, but for several reasons, I'm not currently working. Financially, I don't need to, but there are other reasons too.

I often see on social media, the debate about SAHMs once dc are in school and if it's lazy or even anti feminist to not go back to work.

A couple of my friends recently dug themselves a hole on separate occasions when talking about a school mum friend who didn't work. One said "what does she actually do all day? Her husband even does the cooking some nights!" And the other said "She must be so bored and feel like she doesn't have a real identity". They were both quick to clumsily back track and say they're not referring to me because I'm obviously different Why? Because I'm their friend? I'm still a woman who chooses not to work and who, shock horror, doesn't cook ever single family meal! 😲

In the past when I've heard similar comments, I'd say don't worry about it, you've not offended me etc, even if they had because I didn't want them to feel awkward or embarrassed, but this last time I just smiled and said nothing. One of them even said that this particular mum is perfectly nice, but she needs to keep her at "arms length", for no other reason that I could see other than she didn't work.

The more I thought about it, the more it pissed me off. They're really judgey, bitchy comments to make. It seems as though if you do choose to be a SAHM, then unless you're constantly scrubbing, cleaning, cooking, volunteering and on various committees, then you're looked down on.

Be interesting to hear your perspectives....

I don’t judge SAHPs but I am jealous of them, especially those whose children are at school

I’ve never even given it a second thought really. I know SAHM, working mums and even some stay at home wives with no kids. All lovely never judged them for their work preferences.
It’s about what works for their family. If they can afford to stay home and they want to it’s none of my business.

I am jealous of SAHMs (with school age kids - not babies/toddlers or kids with SEN as that is really hard work) in terms of the time they get with their kids, as I am the main breadwinner and I work my arse off, long hours every day, lots of global travel (absent COVID) and lots of stress and risk. I don’t judge them though unless they are clearly not interested in their kids or do absolutely fuck all - I know some who book their kids into holiday clubs so they can go to barrecore or get their eyebrows done...

Some of the SAHMs I know are sitting ducks if they were to go through divorce or separation, they have never worked a job in their adult lives. I think they are naive but that’s my perspective as someone who has been financially independent since I left home at 18yo. I pay all the household bills and school fees and my husband who also works full time invests his money in pension and funds (which I also do). If he leaves me, or dies or otherwise becomes incapacitated, we will be absolutely fine financially.

Nothing is more important and personally I would live in a crap area / go without what ever I could to be able to raise my child and not palm my children over to someone else to do it for me.

My DC would be far more likely to have worse outcomes as a result of living in a crap area than from attending a childcare setting a few days a week. I’ve chosen them and their future over my short-term wants and continued my career. All are happy.

@Quit4me

No, I don’t. But I do judge working mums who choose luxury unnecessary bought ‘stuff’ over spending time with their child Monday-friday. Working mums who genuinely need the cash to afford to live is different but in my view, your time is the most precious thing you can give a small child. Nothing is more important and personally I would live in a crap area / go without what ever I could to be able to raise my child and not palm my children over to someone else to do it for me.

Not at all, but have been judged for being a working mum. Brilliantly illustrated above

[quote eatsleepyogarepeat]@broadstrokes the thing is that all the SAHM mums I know do exactly this. School run, pop out for a food shop, home for lunch, put the washer on, back out for school run!!!![/quote]
If that's really the case and the sahms you know have no other interests or pursuits than shopping or cleaning either have all-consuming babies and tiny tots (and they can be all-consuming at that age) you perhaps need to broaden your horizons and meet a wider group of friends!

And those of you asking in a sneering way what sahps do when they have teens, well I personally find my teens need me quite a lot, in a totally different way to when they were younger of course , but they need quite a lot of emotional input and support, and have done especially during this last year. They don't always need it at a convenient moment either; I work pt hours from home and teen crises always seem to happen when I am in the middle of a work Zoom call.

@NeverMetANiceOne

I'm a SAHM but I don't really feel judged because I don't hang out with dickheads.

My DC are young 2&4 so I'm pretty busy, and I feel like I'm a very positive role model for my children because I'm a good person with interests, hobbies, time to talk and listen, read to them, play outside etc.

I know one mum who has commented that my life is one big holiday, but I could sense the bitterness and jealousy from her long before she said anything negative to my face.

@NeverMetANiceOne

Well I work full time and I still manage to do all those things!

Ah bitterness and jealousy - wondered how long it’s be before someone wheeled that one out on this thread!!!

I tend to find you make friends with people you have most things in common with. All my friends work, none of them don’t.

I’d personally feel very lazy not working with a teenage child especially of a partner or state had to fund that choice. I’d also worry about the role model I was setting to them.

Love a good sahm v wohm bunfight on MN! So much stereotyping!

I have friends on both ‘sides’, and those inbetween. There’s no judgement amongst us, because we are friends, and they are all nice, intelligent people who understand that different people make different choices, in different circumstances.

I’ve never noticed any judgement from acquaintances at the school gate either. Everyone just gets on with doing their own thing, and as far as I can tell, is confident enough in their own choices not to need to bolster themselves by undermining others.

I tend to find you make friends with people you have most things in common with.

Well it seems I made friends with a bunch of people who don't judge others on petty shit to artificially inflate their own sense of self worth. So you could be right.

Venus true ... these threads appear all the time, I've been on Mumsnet for 20 years (as a SAHM, WOHM and soon to be retired ), I vowed not to get into these 'discussions' some time ago but seem to have got sucked in again .

I dont at all. But often feel very judged by our arrangement. Currently expecting. Husband works 2pm-midnight, I will work 8- 4, with grandparents doing 2.5 hours 2days and nursery 2 afternoons a week. My husband and I have had the comments about people feeling sorry for him doing the majority of the babys care etc and won't I miss out. I have 3 degrees, and worked my arse off to get to my position, I'm not prepared to give it up and lose my position on my career ladder, if I was a man I don't think anyone would have a problem with it. Whereas my husband doesn't have any of this. Baby won't be left for long and will still be very loved with a parent/ grandparent/ have good development opportunities in nursery. I think we should all do what's best for each of our scenarios and what works for one, doesn't work for another.

I'm a SAHM but I don't really feel judged because I don't hang out with dickheads

I wouldn't judge a sahp.

My experience is that it is sahps who judge wohps. I have honestly come close to hitting the "Aren't you worried about how much you are missing out on?" or "Do you think your dc will be more attached to their cm than you?" crowd.

Having a parent at home is a great option if you can afford it.

I don't judge SAHMs, I'll admit I'm a little envious and as someone said upthread, I'd give up work in a heartbeat with a big lottery win. I've been judged as a WOHM though, by my family and people that were supposed to be friends. Comments like "I couldn't bear to leave my baby that long" and "I don't understand why people had children just to let someone else look after them". Mate, it's so I can afford the mortgage and food, I'm not doing it to pay for my nails and designer shoes.

I don’t judge SAHP but like pp I just don’t really know any. All my friends and most people I made friends with at groups all work (mostly PT) after maternity leave. I do however work as a nurse so most people do go back to their career and find a way to make it flexible around their family. I absolutely wouldn’t judge a SAHM with small kids but I do wonder why some people don’t go back to work when all the children are in school especially if finances etc are tight and they could use the income. I also can’t imagine giving up my career which is a huge part of my life (as much as my kids I would say) to be home with them 24/7. I find the attitude of ‘unless you want to spend every waking moment of your life with your children you aren’t a good mother’ tiresome. My children have both adored nursery and we have lovely quality time together before and after, on my days off and weekend/holidays.

I find it interesting how so many wohps on here have formed quite strong opinions about sahms while at the same time declaring they don't know any. Surely you need to know someone quite well before making a judgement about them?

I am a working mum, always have been and always will be. The stay at home parents I know are all financially disadvantaged compared to me - nobody I know became a SAHP from a position of choice. They were forced into it because they couldn’t afford early years childcare and then later couldn’t get a job.

Honestly?

I work full time and DH is a SAHD which he has been for nearly 8 years. Children all at school. He likes to say he ‘has to be’ on hand in case school calls, but this is blatantly untrue as it’s normally me as the only driver who will pick up an ill child.

Based on my experience of him doing most of the house stuff and still having time to spend three or four hours watching tv and drinking coffee, I judge a little bit tbh. Just admit that as a SAHP, no you’re not rushed off your feet all the time.

Having said that - I actually can’t think of any one else I know that is a SAHP. Most have at least a part time job.

I admit I do judge SAHPs who continue the SAH gig after all kids have gone to school.

I wouldn’t say anything in real life, but yes, I do judge it.

Likewise, plenty of SAHPs judge WOHPs.

Everyone judges. Not necessarily about this particular issue. But everyone does judge. Anyone who says they don’t is either lying, or so disengaged from the world that who’d want their company anyway?

@SmellsLikeWineIGuess I don’t get people that just ‘don’t judge’. Isn’t judgement like an involuntary response to something you see or hear? First impressions count. We can all say to ourselves that we don’t know the home situation etc, but if I meet someone and they have grown up children and don’t work while their partner does, my immediate thought is ‘how the hell do you fill your days?!’ Obviously conversation can take place which reverses your initial feeling.

I'm a SAHM and although I have had a few minor judgements, mostly what I experience is praise from working parents and comments of "I don't know how you do it. I had to go back to work for my own sanity"

There are days I love being a SAHM and days where I could cry but overall I'm happy with how my children are being raised and the environment they're in.

When my eldest is in school and youngest in preschool, I plan to retrain for a new career and then start work when they're both in school.

My biggest fear in regards to this lifestyle is my husband dying. We are living mostly comfortably on his sole wage but god forbid anything happened to him, the kids and I would be screwed and that terrifies me.

[quote JackieTheFart]@SmellsLikeWineIGuess I don’t get people that just ‘don’t judge’. Isn’t judgement like an involuntary response to something you see or hear? First impressions count. We can all say to ourselves that we don’t know the home situation etc, but if I meet someone and they have grown up children and don’t work while their partner does, my immediate thought is ‘how the hell do you fill your days?!’ Obviously conversation can take place which reverses your initial feeling.[/quote]
Absolutely, to all of this.

To be human is to judge. Of course people do - you’d have to be brain-dead not to. We take what we know of the world, and use that information to quickly process what’s in front of us.

That’s not to say that you should stick rigidly to your first impression. It’s likely that may change with deeper knowledge.

But to try to pretend you (one) don’t judge, is disingenuous.

I don’t judge because it’s hard work in my opinion.
What I do expect in return though is the understanding that the conversations will become increasingly boring for me. It’s a pattern I have seen in my circle and it bores me crazy. As a result, I have drifted towards friends who work as we can have conversations around similar topics. I am sure SAHPs experience this too. Each to their own.