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Original poster

How is this not murder?(upsetting)

601 replies

OhToBeASeahorse · 26/03/2021 12:16

A mother has appeared in court today charged with the manslaughter of her toddler.

She left her, alone, for 6 days.

How can this not be murder? I don't understand.

OP posts:
Hm2020 · 26/03/2021 17:56

Even though I commented about trafficking it still is no excuse to anyone thinking I was making excuses I had a very bad childhood in care, abused etc and have managed to never leave my ds alone...

Happycat1212 · 26/03/2021 18:00

She’s not being trafficked my sister has friends like this, they live up north but come down to London and get everything paid for by men, they stay at the men’s houses and everything is paid for partying etc, they don’t put their hand in their pocket and they meet them online so get links down in London to have weekends away partying. They know exactly what they are doing most of them have kids as well but they have the decency to leave them with family.

TheVolturi · 26/03/2021 18:00

That poor poor beautiful little girl, my heart hurts thinking of her all alone, how could you?

MagentaZebras · 26/03/2021 18:01

@thedancingbear the "factors that led to it happening" are:

  1. Her mother choosing to leave her alone for 6 days with no food or water.

Ummmm... that's it.

ismiseeire · 26/03/2021 18:01

This is one of the saddest things that I've ever read. All I can think about is that poor little tot, toddling about crying. I hope she's with the angels now.

It reminds me of a very unusual film on Netflix called 'Pihu'. Can't remember the exact storyline, but it does involve a little child alone in a house (think the Mum had died in the flat or something). I don't know how they got the little girl to act, but it's a difficult one to watch. If there was an Oscar for children, the little actress should win it.

Bythemillpond · 26/03/2021 18:02

All these people she was partying with did no one ask where her daughter was when she was out for 6 days

SweatyPie · 26/03/2021 18:03

@JustLyra

I am not minimising the experience of a difficult childhood. I have lived it and its effects never go away. What I have said is that this does not provide an "explanation" for abusive behaviour.

Again, we disagree. It does not excuse it, but it may very well explain it.

Tbh, anyone making up scenarios is making excuses. It suggests she didn't have free will/was compelled when there isn't any evidence for this

Also, constant references to abuse. It's used as a defence. 'She was abused so you can't criticise her, it want her fault, she didn't know any better'

SoupDragon · 26/03/2021 18:09

How many posters are basing comments on the facts heard in court/discovered during the investigation rather than basing it on newspaper reports?

It is truly awful but none of us know all the details.

IrmaFayLear · 26/03/2021 18:10

I’m sure that many rapists (perhaps all rapists, even) have a troubled background. Should we “understand” them and excuse their acts? Animal abusers? Child molesters?

It’s the standard get out of jail free card now. I can only hope that juries think it is an overused one.

MagentaZebras · 26/03/2021 18:13

@SweatyPie yes, I hate the "oh she was abused so totally inderstandable!".

No is fucking isn't. How could it ever be??

I mean, imagine that first night, after her party she's finally going to sleep. Knowing her toddler is alone, frightened, starving, thirsty, sitting in a filthy nappy. Off to sleep then.

Wake up next day. Imagine how she is now, waking up and still no mummy. Very thirsty and hungry, terrified.

Then repeat for SIX more days before you go home. Really? Nothing can "explain" this except someone being a psychopath.

MagentaZebras · 26/03/2021 18:14

@IrmaFayLear

I’m sure that many rapists (perhaps all rapists, even) have a troubled background. Should we “understand” them and excuse their acts? Animal abusers? Child molesters?

It’s the standard get out of jail free card now. I can only hope that juries think it is an overused one.

It's also a horrible slur on the characters of those of us who are abuse survivors, that people should be suspicious of us because hey, we'll probably just do the same to other people. Angry
ismiseeire · 26/03/2021 18:15

I must have missed the part in the article where it said that the Mum was abused?

MazekeenSmith · 26/03/2021 18:16

@ismiseeire

I must have missed the part in the article where it said that the Mum was abused?
It's speculation reading between the lines
MagentaZebras · 26/03/2021 18:16

@ismiseeire

I must have missed the part in the article where it said that the Mum was abused?
It didn't. People have assumed this because she "ran away" at 14 allegedly.
ismiseeire · 26/03/2021 18:17

She ran away several times since age 14. That doesn't mean that she was abused. Her father appeared in court with her and she waved to him. I'd say she just had issues.

ismiseeire · 26/03/2021 18:18

If my teen ran away, I'd hate to think that the immediate assumption was that she was being abused. Of course maybe she was, but it's quite the assumption.

MagentaZebras · 26/03/2021 18:19

@ismiseeire

She ran away several times since age 14. That doesn't mean that she was abused. Her father appeared in court with her and she waved to him. I'd say she just had issues.
Yes. Issues like being a psychopathic child killer.
May17th · 26/03/2021 18:20

@IrmaFayLear

It is frankly astonishing that on this thread there are so many falling over themselves to excuse the mother. Grasping at anything - that she couldn’t make a phone call, she was a victim of trafficking, underfunding of social services etc etc.

This was not neglect through negligence or inexperience or foolishness. This was a decision that girl took.

It’s a scary world where some people will leap to not just defend but actively advocate for someone who has perpetrated a terrible crime.

Maybe people are thinking the girl had some deep issue because it is unusual. I mean you don’t often read things like this do you? The mother went not for the night but 6!!

So I can understand people thinking the mother was troubled..

MagentaZebras · 26/03/2021 18:20

@ismiseeire

If my teen ran away, I'd hate to think that the immediate assumption was that she was being abused. Of course maybe she was, but it's quite the assumption.
As weird and wild as the assumptions that she was human trafficked, coerced into leaving, incapable of using a telephone for six days despite posting on social media about her partying while he daughter was dying, etc.
bringbacksideburns · 26/03/2021 18:21

No-one's suggesting it's not her fault. Some grown-ups are trying to understand what factors may have led to it happening, so that we can reduce the chances of it happening again.

You can't fathom human behaviour at times though. The child was not seen as at risk yet they were supposed to be in 'supported accommodation' so clearly that didn't work and that will get a good overhaul, hopefully.

I was really hoping they wouldn't trot out the old familiar ' lessons will be learned ' line - but they did.

It's sad all round but I don't understand why we are patronising and insulting those of us who have less empathy for the mum and more for the very small child left alone in a flat.

Who knows what was going on in her head? Did she honestly think she'd return to a happy and healthy child??

NerrSnerr · 26/03/2021 18:22

@Jellycatspyjamas

The girl herself is responsible - and the court will impose a sentence accordingly, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t wider issues at play, which will come out in the SCR.
I agree with this. Of course she needs to be punished accordingly but everything else needs to be looked at. What support she had from authorities, who she was mixing with- why did she go to 3 parties in 3 days? Etc. We need to unpick everything to try and reduce the risk of this happening in the future.
IrmaFayLear · 26/03/2021 18:22

Of course she was troubled. But it’s the absolute rampant defending of her that I can’t understand.

ismiseeire · 26/03/2021 18:24

We need to unpick everything to try and reduce the risk of this happening in the future.

Let's leave that up to the professionals actually involved in the case eh?

May17th · 26/03/2021 18:26

@IrmaFayLear

Of course she was troubled. But it’s the absolute rampant defending of her that I can’t understand.
You try to understand something without agreeing with someone there’s a difference.

I haven’t read all the comments but I’m sure we all agree on the thread it’s really tragic. To be honest we don’t know about the mothers childhood and so on..

ismiseeire · 26/03/2021 18:26

I wonder what prompted the YMCA staff to check the CCTV? From my reading of the article, it wasn't police who did this? Or maybe the police requested CCTV from the staff?