Breastfeeding isn't easy for all mothers...?

[faithfulbird20]

What do you think? I honestly find it the most hardest thing in the world...finding the right tops, cloths, you're feeding one side the other side decides to leak a waterfall, baby doesn't want to latch properly, mild tongue tie, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard and annoying, breast milk has leaked on baby's clothes, baby needs changing. Breastfeeding in front of other people, family etc...

@BertieBotts

But Wondermule, I don't think everyone needs to bf or that it's important for everyone to prioritise bf. I totally understand that some people would prefer to bottle feed, if not right from the start, then as an alternative to pushing through BF problems and that's absolutely valid. It's a reasonable alternative of course and I will disagree with anyone who tries to put some kind of morality on someone's reasons to stop. It's always the mother's choice and nobody else's business.

I don't understand why more support = more pressure? If you say I want to stop now then why would a health visitor push helplines and support groups at you? The IBCLCs I follow on social media etc have all posted about stories of how they have helped someone stop when that's the right choice for them. It's not an agenda to make someone bf at all costs. It's more of a counselling service with bf knowledge/experience.

And while some people would probably prefer to stop after a few weeks if it wasn't clear that it was going to resolve easily any time soon, other people would prefer to push through and either option is also fine. It's just like birth really. There are no medals for not taking that epidural and it's an option if you want it. But some people will find it worthwhile to push through.

Personally I don't know where my limit would be. I haven't had any particularly taxing BF experiences. The first baby was easy and the second had some bumps in the road but only took a few weeks to sort out and never felt like there wasn't progress. I don't think personally I could cope with expressing for months on end, I'd probably stop. But I know that it is worth that effort to some people and I think it should be seen as worthwhile as long as that's what they want to do. Not the only option or even the preferred/best option. Just neutral.

I discussed this with my sister when she was bf, we both agreed rather than groups/hotlines, we should go back to the old system of maternity homes. Women are too desperate to rush home from hospital, they should be staying in at least a week with intensive bfing support (longer if they don’t crack it). Going home when baby isn’t feeding properly is a recipe for disaster.

It simply isn’t fair on babies to make them wait 4 days until the next breastfeeding group for them to get a proper feed you wouldn’t make a 5 year old wait that long for a proper meal.

@Wondermule

Glad all those people helped you, but it just sounds like run of the mill decency rather than anyone actually caring how you fed your kids.

You tell yourself that if it makes you feel better but it makes little difference to me. Caring, common decency - that's just semantics. I had excellent support when I needed it, and that mattered to me.

As for the magic, it just sounds like you wasted a lot of your baby days obsessing over breastfeeding, fine but don’t make other women feel bad because they chose to let go and enjoy their newborn instead.

What makes you think I also didn't enjoy my newborn? I wanted breastfeeding to work. I didn't mean I didn't enjoy my newborn baby. If anything I think my determinations showed how I felt about her.

Not everyone who has breast fed feels the need to jump on the ‘well done me’ bandwagon.

You may think my one post was snidey but every reply to me had been a thinly veiled dig like this because you think I should be proud of breastfeeding. Well, and pardon the pun - tough titty, I am proud, I am on the 'well done me' bandwgaon if that's what you want to call it. I have NO idea why it bothers you so much though? Hence my suspicion. I haven't given anyone a hard time about they felt about how they fed...why are you???

But it isn’t significant. It’s feeding a baby

It was significant to me, for reasons stated previously that I CBA repeating.

Seriously, WHY does it other you that some people feel proud? Because that's one YOU, not them.

in the way that women have done since time immemorial. You haven’t started the first colony on Mars or anything.

As I stated earlier, this is the crux of why women don't feel supported postnatally.
The attitude of "women have done it for millennia, not a big deal" regarding everything from pregnancy to feeding - you're downplaying women's experiences before they've even had a chance to open their mouths about how they feel about it. And where do you draw the line - hundreds of thousands of people every year

• run marathons
• overcome cancer
• grow a successful business
• pass their driving test
• graduate from higher education

Do you think "well done" or do you think "meh loads of people do that, no biggie". Or is it just women you like to shout down about their experiences?

I think your ego on this is a bit out of control if I’m honest

😂😂😂😂 hilarious

I've been accused of many strange things on MN but an "out of control ego" because I said I felt my breastfeeding journey was an achievement is probably my favourite one.

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

Breastfeeding journey 😂😂 destination: bragging on MN

It’s fine to be proud, as lots of women have stated on this thread. Good for you. What I didn’t like was your snide little inference that women should feel bad about it, because presumably it makes you feel exclusive and superior.

Anyway I shall sign off now. I hope in future you find someone equally as interested in your bfing ‘journey’ so you can bore them to tears about it 😂

@Wondermule
Well what would you say instead of journey? Sorry words offend you so

It’s fine to be proud, as lots of women have stated on this thread. Good for you

Eh????

You've just spent the last 10 posts or so telling me it's ridiculous to feel proud

What I didn’t like was your snide little inference that women should feel bad about it, because presumably it makes you feel exclusive and superior.

I didn't infer that at all. Can't you read? I said I don't care if someone comes on and gets upset over what I said (like you) as it's always the way here. Not the same as saying "women should feel bad". Don't make stuff up

You can't see the irony of your anger at my post can you?

Anyway I shall sign off now. I hope in future you find someone equally as interested in your bfing ‘journey’ so you can bore them to tears about it

I don't need to, unlike you clearly I have supportive people.

WHY does it bother you???? I wanna know. It's very odd to be so angry at a person for being proud of something you're not proud of? What's the agenda, I'm dying to know.

Hang on, is this better:

Yeah I breastfed both of mine, gee how boring and embarrassing, I went through hell and back but still carried on how mortifying guffaw, definitely hate myself for it.

Feel better now? Seeing as how I feel about my breastfeeding journey (yes I sad journey, cry me a river you miss over sensitive) matters so acutely to you?

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

Hang on, is this better:

Yeah I breastfed both of mine, gee how boring and embarrassing, I went through hell and back but still carried on how mortifying guffaw, definitely hate myself for it.

Feel better now? Seeing as how I feel about my breastfeeding journey (yes I sad journey, cry me a river you miss over sensitive) matters so acutely to you?

Well if I put ‘I work hard to maintain my figure, and I’m proud I am slim’ people would think fair enough.

If I put I work hard to maintain my figure and I don’t care if it upsets fat people then people would think ‘arsehole’.

See the difference?

You can be proud of whatever you want, I guess whether you feel proud of breastfeeding depends on your parenting standards. I see adequately nourishing your baby as one of the bare minimums. So I’m not ‘proud’ of bfing my daughter, or making her healthy food, it’s just something I do as her mum. However I’m proud of her because she is an amazing little girl and regardless of the methods, the proof is in the pudding

I think ticking boxes offers reassurance to some women that they’re de facto ‘good mothers’ when mothering is about the overall result.

Anyway 🏅 for your bfing.

It's really hard at the start, painful, you can't share night time care, lots of complications possible etc. But bloody hell push past that and a few months down the line it's the easiest thing ever! Food, comfort and pain relief just by flopping out a boob!

@Wondermule see personally I'm proud of myself because my kids are so great. That didn't happen by accident, it's through a lot of hard work, common sense, a little bit of winging it and very much through the "things we just do as a mum" too. I guess we are just different that way with our parenting standards as you say. But I'm the kind of person who lets myself be proud even with things others might see as ordinary. I show my children that I'm proud of my achievements - even the ones others see as unremarkable- including how I've raised them. Hopefully they will see a mother who is confident and happy - it's important we model good behaviour and I like to model that they shouldn't be self deprecating or play down what they feel they've done well in. That's just my parenting standards 🤷‍♀️

I found it relatively easy to establish breastfeeding, certainly with DS1, even though he had a very pronounced tongue tie. DS2 was a bit more tricky and if he had been my first, I honestly don't know how I would have felt about attempting to breastfeed a second DC. DS2 fussed a lot and I found the latch very painful at times, despite having had plenty of experience of latching with DS1.

I remember having mastitis though and that was no picnic. One boob in excruciating pain and solid as a rock and the feeling I had been hit by a train.

It definitely isn't easy, and it also isn't for everyone - only you can decide - but if you get to the point where your mental health is taking a real battering then switching to bottles may be the best thing for you and your baby. BF is good, but it is never the most important thing.

I think breast feeding is such an emotive subject and unfortunately many people have had judgements however they are feeding their child, and in those early days you are often very fragile so it sticks with you. I think that why people get so sensitive about it.

Baby feeding is always a faff however you do it but needs must

There's a convenience to BF once established. Like a PP I did layers vest came down Tshirt went up. I had a vast collection of large light scarves/ pashminas used as spare blanket, emergency mop, modesty shield, sun shield that helped a lot. I BF all my dc till 2, last two were twins and I felt really boxed into bf as they had a dairy allergy and would throw any formula up. I was really unsupported tbh and was pretty much exhausted for years. I think it took me another two years to catch up on all the sleep I'd missed out on. I had planned on mixed feeding.

[quote Wondermule]@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

I pre-empted it with an "I don't care" in the vain hope people wouldn't make it about them

It was snide, and a nasty little attempt to suggest women should feel bad with your faux innocent ‘I was just pre-empting’.

Glad all those people helped you, but it just sounds like run of the mill decency rather than anyone actually caring how you fed your kids.

As for the magic, it just sounds like you wasted a lot of your baby days obsessing over breastfeeding, fine but don’t make other women feel bad because they chose to let go and enjoy their newborn instead.

You can be as suspicious as you like 🤷🏼‍♀️ Not everyone who has breast fed feels the need to jump on the ‘well done me’ bandwagon.[/quote]

The breastfeeding support groups are full of those snide little comments and digs towards FF mums. The so called amazing support they offer didn't help me - there's only so many times you can hear 'have you tried eating oats' or 'lie in bed skin to skin all day and feed' and other than that it's basically constant fodder for you to torture yourself over how FF is inferior, and comments from people congratulating themselves on reaching 6/12/18 months breastfeeding. They're only supportive when you're following their agenda, deviate from that and you'll soon see how supportive some of the members are to new mums.

Each woman and child is different but there is clearly a spectrum between:

• those who find it easy, take to it straight away and love it (my sil)
• those who find it straight forward but don’t really like it
• those who have a tough time but can persevere
• those who who really struggle
• those who can’t or don’t want to

It didn’t work for us but I can easily see how people who have had struggles but managed to continue would feel they had achieved something or were glad they had got though any initial struggles. Sometimes their personal pride can turn into sanctimony though which is when I think the bun fights happen.

There's an advert on TV showing a new mum crying and distressed trying to breastfeed her baby whilst her mum gives her advice via video.
It seems that breastfeeding is often portrayed in a negative way which sets new mums into thinking that it won't work, is too painful /stressful.

It seems that breastfeeding is often portrayed in a negative way which sets new mums into thinking that it won't work, is too painful /stressful.

I disagree. The ad you speak of is a new development, a reaction to the fact that BFing was previously portrayed as ‘easy’ to persuade new mums to give it ago.

That wasn’t particularly helpful as they then found it challenging and wondered why they were struggling.

Bfing is usually front loaded. Very tough at first but becomes a lot easier. It’s right to be honest about this and provide the practical help and support for mums who want to push through. I’m immensely glad I got through those early days and ended up greatly enjoying bfing. But I was able to access brilliant support, thankfully. Others aren’t so lucky.

Interesting thread.

When I was pregnant with DD1 all I heard was "breastfeeding is hard" "breastfeeding may be very difficult" "don't worry if you can't breastfeed"

And then actually had no issues breastfeeding DD1 and then DD2. It was the most natural thing in the world to me and baby, to the point where I was thinking how can so many women struggle? (Obviously I understand they do!).

A few girls from work had went on about how easy breastfeeding was especially in the nights etc and when out and about. I was very naive about it tbh. I thought well I'll just give it a go and if we get along gd with it then we'll do it.

Oh my god I had no idea 🙈 cluster feeding, cracked bleeding nipples, pain, baby not latching etc. It never crossed my mind that it would be painful, feeding ur baby with tears running down ur face. My milk never came in as well. It did second time oh my was I shocked 😆

[quote JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]@Wondermule see personally I'm proud of myself because my kids are so great. That didn't happen by accident, it's through a lot of hard work, common sense, a little bit of winging it and very much through the "things we just do as a mum" too. I guess we are just different that way with our parenting standards as you say. But I'm the kind of person who lets myself be proud even with things others might see as ordinary. I show my children that I'm proud of my achievements - even the ones others see as unremarkable- including how I've raised them. Hopefully they will see a mother who is confident and happy - it's important we model good behaviour and I like to model that they shouldn't be self deprecating or play down what they feel they've done well in. That's just my parenting standards 🤷‍♀️[/quote]
🙄 yawn

I found it very easy. I am lucky.

I came on to make a practical comment about BFing but then I saw how bitchy the thread became and I decided not to bother.

Oh noooo, I'm boring some rando with agenda on MN, how will I ever cope 😭😭😭😭 oh wait, I don't care. Very telling you can't form a proper response 🙄🤷‍♀️

TBH I can't decide if you're bitter, or jealous, or both @Wondermule (I can't think of any other reason why you're so angry about another woman being proud of breastfeeding her children) but I suggest sorting your issues out in your own life rather than attacking other women because they choose not to be self deprecating about their choices.

The breastfeeding support groups are full of those snide little comments and digs towards FF mums.

Sorry to hear that @GreenSlide but not everyone had that experience of groups.

comments from people congratulating themselves on reaching 6/12/18 months breastfeeding

What's wrong with that? Why can't people congratulate themselves on what they see as an achievement?

I mix fed ds for three months and I am proud to be honest, as it was incredibly challenging and I had to express milk for him. I’m also disappointed in myself I didn’t manage it for longer.