Breastfeeding isn't easy for all mothers...?

[faithfulbird20]

What do you think? I honestly find it the most hardest thing in the world...finding the right tops, cloths, you're feeding one side the other side decides to leak a waterfall, baby doesn't want to latch properly, mild tongue tie, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard and annoying, breast milk has leaked on baby's clothes, baby needs changing. Breastfeeding in front of other people, family etc...

P. S. There is simply no replacement for the support women received from an accumulation of hundreds of years worth of knowledge and experience that we lost (mostly) in the 70s and 80s when formula was promoted over breastfeeding.

@Somethingsnappy

P. S. There is simply no replacement for the support women received from an accumulation of hundreds of years worth of knowledge and experience that we lost (mostly) in the 70s and 80s when formula was promoted over breastfeeding.

What knowledge was that?

@Somethingsnappy

There is simply no replacing the help, support and advice that a new mother would receive, when surrounded by a whole community of breastfeeding mothers.

Perhaps in other countries where people live in family communities, but I don’t think this has been the case in the UK for a very long time, certainly not just the 70s onwards.

If we take the the 1800s for example (I find this era fascinating!), most women’s only living female predecessor would be their mother - generally people didn’t live long enough to have grandparents as an adult. So there wouldn’t have been an abundance of elderly female relatives milling about to show you how to breastfeed.

As far as the breastfeeding traditions would go, some were awful - a lot of babies were given to wet nurses who couldn’t keep up with the demand of feeding another infant alongside their own children. Babies were weaned very early onto unsuitable foods, so breastfeeding didn’t actually go on for all that long in most cases.

If breastfeeding had been so successful over the last few hundred years, we wouldn’t have had such a high infant mortality rate.

No, I don’t think it’s easy at first! It’s a lot of getting used to and can feel awkward. Now that I’m a few months in I do genuinely find it easy, and I’ve lost my self-consciousness about it, but it was hard work until it was established.

Now that it’s all going well I do think it saves me a lot of hassle - it’s great not to have to faff around with sterilising equipment or waiting for a bottle to cool with a screamy starving baby. But I do remember in the early days thinking how much easier a bottle would be! I’m very glad I persevered though, it’s been worth it to get to the easy point I’m at now.

I breastfed for about 10 seconds with my first. Never again. Hated it. I expressed for 6 mi the and will do with this one.

Wondermule it was also common to share feeding with other female relatives and this is very common in some cultures

It’s always been the case that many women can not breast feed successfully either not producing milk, producing very little or it’s causes other problems that impacts their health. As we can not all give birth without medical intervention

@OhWhyNot

Wondermule it was also common to share feeding with other female relatives and this is very common in some cultures

It’s always been the case that many women can not breast feed successfully either not producing milk, producing very little or it’s causes other problems that impacts their health. As we can not all give birth without medical intervention

Exactly.

There are lots of posters on here who say they haven’t had enough ‘support’ to bf, but upon probing they’ve seen a lactation consultant, been to bfing groups, phoned the hotlines, been seen by a midwife etc.

Some people can have all the assistance in the world and not make it work, but MN gives the impression it’s about finding the right ‘support’.

@Wondermule, you raise interesting points about the1800s. Although it would not just be the elderly relatives who would offer support/help in the past; having a community of peers - other breastfeeding mothers - would be there to offer support from their own experience. The 'pool' would be wider if almost everyone was doing it. Also, only the well-off could afford a wet nurse presumably.

As for the knowledge, I just mean the knowledge that comes from generations of experience. Nothing particularly that we don't know now.... But the difference being that only those with training or a lot of experience have it these days, as opposed to the majority in the past.

[quote Somethingsnappy]@Wondermule, you raise interesting points about the1800s. Although it would not just be the elderly relatives who would offer support/help in the past; having a community of peers - other breastfeeding mothers - would be there to offer support from their own experience. The 'pool' would be wider if almost everyone was doing it. Also, only the well-off could afford a wet nurse presumably.

As for the knowledge, I just mean the knowledge that comes from generations of experience. Nothing particularly that we don't know now.... But the difference being that only those with training or a lot of experience have it these days, as opposed to the majority in the past.[/quote]
I’m sure people offered tips where they could, like today, but most women worked even if not in conventional paid employment - working on farms, on the land, in service, cleaning or sewing etc. Women wealthy enough not to work paid for wet nurses. So to my mind I think the room full of new mums and elderly female relatives swapping breastfeeding tips was probably a bit of a myth. Probably why so many infants died

I’m sure it happens in other cultures though.

Can you tell I’ve been reading books about Georgian England

It's not always a case of finding the right support I agree. Some women can have all the support in the world and it still won't work out for one reason or another.

But the reason people bang on about support a lot is that the front line support most mothers receive in the UK is very poor. A very small proportion ever see a lactation consultant. There are only a few areas if the UK where lactation consultants are available on the NHS and this is a very recent development,so in most areas you have to pay which is appalling for something that should be so basic. In most areas it's still midwife and health visitor, both of whom receive very little BF training or GP, who routinely receive none. You might see an infant feeding specialist midwife but even they will not have had the same level of training as an IBCLC (in some areas this is where the IBCLC works though, which is great).

And the community/cultural support as I mentioned before with the unhelpful comments etc. Really different to the kind of comments and feeling that you get if you walk into a breastfeeding peer support group. I never once felt self conscious about feeding there whereas often in public situations or around my Ex's family in particular I was made to feel as though I was doing something a bit awkward and special, which is really unhelpful! And I'm not a particularly anxious or self conscious person where BF is concerned. I know a lot of people struggle much more with this than I did.

If you get bad advice then it can cause problems you wouldn't have otherwise had. This can be countered by having good support to bounce feedback off. If you do encounter problems, the NHS solution is often either wait and see or top up with formula, without a plan to manage this. Whereas better support would be more hands on in the early stages and if top ups are needed then a full investigation as to why AND a feeding plan as to how to move forward longer term.

Not saying that support can fix all problems, but I do think a large proportion of the problems most uk mums have could well be fixed or reduced with the right support.

That is no doubt the case for many Bertie but there seems to be a belief if you gave birth you can produce enough milk for your child and that has never been the case

unfortunately if you tell some women you were unable to successfully breastfeed or didn’t produce enough milk you are instantly dismissed as not having enough knowledge over your own body. I can’t tell you how many times I have been patronised

I have had this happen on quite a few occasion on mn. For some reason my grandmother, my mother and myself didn’t produce much milk (though they both had very easy births I didn’t). The point I made is not so unusual for our bodies to not work as designed this isn’t new just thankfully far more babies and mothers survive childbirth and we have other means of feeding babies that is healthy and safe

There’s bloody loads @BertieBotts in addition to NHS and pricey specialists there are La Leche League and the other one (can’t remember it’s name), both offer free advice 24/7. There’s breastfeeding groups everywhere, books, YouTube videos etc

Essentially it’s just getting a baby to suckle at a breast in the right way, there are only so many things you can try.

The most pain I've ever experienced - hated every second of it.

What? Of course it's not. I breastfed mine till they were 3 and a half, tandem fed both of them for year, but it was never bloody easy.

I struggled massively and very nearly suffered a breakdown when my firstborn was around ten days old. My health visitor took one look at me and told me to get some formula in. I mixed fed DS and then subsequent babies until around two/three months, it just wasn't the easy experience I'd been led I believe it would be. I had mastitis with all of them, both sides at the same time with DD, it was painful and while I loved the closeness of feeding, doing it exclusively wasn't for me.

Yes I know there are other free support groups, but again not everyone comes across these. You tend to only find them if you're active online in pro-BF spaces IME, or if you're lucky and come across someone who mentions it at a baby group. Or maybe if you go to anything vaguely "attachment parenty" like a sling meet or whatever. Most people aren't doing these things at some sleep consultant sites (ack), loads of forums (including mumsnet!), kellymom.

IME the vast majority of people assume that the breastfeeding support available to them is what they get on the NHS and that is the part that's often insufficient. I saw more than once new mums crying at baby clinic asking the HV for help and them just uselessly hand waving and repeating "Breast is best" or "We don't recommend starting solids until 6 months" (or some unhelpful variation). I think once I was brave enough to let one of them know about the peer support group. I can't remember, it was a while ago now. The health visitor/midwife is supposed to give out details of the national breastfeeding helpline - I would hope that is happening (I haven't had a baby in the UK for 12 years so I'm not sure). However, I would guess not, based on what people on MN and other BF/parenting sites are saying.

I agree there is an unhelpful belief in some circles that "everyone can produce enough" which is not the full story - it's not like all BF problems are about supply anyway. You will also never get to 100% (or 98% or whatever made up statistic floats around the internet - seriously - never seen a source for this) even with perfect support. But properly accessible support would make a difference for a lot of people. Sorry. I won't stop going on about support as long as it means that pregnant women become aware of the free (and paid) services which are available on top of NHS support. Because IME the time you need to know about it is before you've got problems, not once your problems have multiplied with bad advice into compound issues.

Also there is a huge pressure on women to exclusively breast feed

I was fine mixing it was never an issue ds was hungry that’s it I had followed advice read up (beforehand) and didn’t produce enough milk there wasn’t any tears over this but others were apparently saddened for me 🙄and I think many women are happy to mix feed or purely formula feed

But not many want to acknowledge that as it’s seen as a necessity when for many it’s the preferred choice (probably not on mn)

That isn’t to dismiss the lack of support

@BertieBotts

I agree with everything you’ve said and it’s very clear you’re extremely passionate about bfing from threads I have seen you post on. Which is great.

But, not everyone will prioritise breastfeeding like you do. Some mums, like I have said before, would rather cut the anguish and go straight to bottle feeding. I can’t imagine they would thank a HV for pushing endless groups and hotline numbers at them. I think it piles on the pressure, and makes mums feel like they can’t stop until they’ve exhausted themselves trying everything.

I would also hazard a guess that if you haven’t cracked it after a few weeks or so, and with some professional input, you’re not going to, and I think these endless sources of ‘support’ can drag out the inevitable.

I’m a huge believer in happy mum, happy baby. So I think there should be a ‘reasonable’ level of assistance (which I believe there is), but any more and it would make a very pressurised and bewildering environment.

@OhWhyNot

Also there is a huge pressure on women to exclusively breast feed

I was fine mixing it was never an issue ds was hungry that’s it I had followed advice read up (beforehand) and didn’t produce enough milk there wasn’t any tears over this but others were apparently saddened for me 🙄and I think many women are happy to mix feed or purely formula feed

But not many want to acknowledge that as it’s seen as a necessity when for many it’s the preferred choice (probably not on mn)

That isn’t to dismiss the lack of support

Interesting because countries with much higher bfing rates are often more relaxed about giving the odd bottle if mum wants some sleep etc.

Yes I know with my family this is the case no second thought given about ds being mix feed

Was only at baby groups and on here

I didn’t experience pressure to breastfeed at all. I found midwives and the HV were pushing formula at me despite me saying ‘but I really want to breastfeed.’

It was so painful at first
I didn't know if I was doing it right
It helped me bond with my baby
It forced me to rest for long periods when he was little
It got him to sleep every night and continues to do so even now that he is 37 months old
I'm proud and embarrassed (simultaneously) that I'm still breastfeeding at 37 months
Mastitis was horrible
It's so convenient
It's so inconvenient at times too
It has killed my sex drive
I will never regret my choice to breastfeed but my god I had no idea what a life changer it was going to be

A few random thoughts there!

@Rufffles

It was so painful at first I didn't know if I was doing it right It helped me bond with my baby It forced me to rest for long periods when he was little It got him to sleep every night and continues to do so even now that he is 37 months old I'm proud and embarrassed (simultaneously) that I'm still breastfeeding at 37 months Mastitis was horrible It's so convenient It's so inconvenient at times too It has killed my sex drive I will never regret my choice to breastfeed but my god I had no idea what a life changer it was going to be

A few random thoughts there!

37 months old?!?! So 3?

Milk teeth are called milk teeth for a reason. My almost 3 year old still nestles in in the mornings and before bedtime. It's a huge part of parenting in that it provides comfort and closeness.