Breastfeeding isn't easy for all mothers...?

[faithfulbird20]

What do you think? I honestly find it the most hardest thing in the world...finding the right tops, cloths, you're feeding one side the other side decides to leak a waterfall, baby doesn't want to latch properly, mild tongue tie, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard and annoying, breast milk has leaked on baby's clothes, baby needs changing. Breastfeeding in front of other people, family etc...

I Breastfed because it was easier they making up bottles sterilising etc plus I lost weight , yea it was hard at first but the I felt it was best for me and my baby,, simple really

@MrsSchrute
I’m not worked up about it
You’ve got the wrong poster

Actually I do think that their differences are emerging as less distinct but that’s immaterial to me as many things underpinned my decision to want to and to go on to breastfeed.
I think it is probably more revealing to broadly assess - necessity v expectation aside - the socio economic aspects of formula feeding and breastfeeding as familial influence, etc as obviously those factors are more impactful.

What I didn’t like was my SIL’s judging my decision because they FF

Also I was broke as o it was cheaper !

So

[quote Cleverpolly3]@MrsSchrute
I’m not worked up about it
You’ve got the wrong poster

Actually I do think that their differences are emerging as less distinct but that’s immaterial to me as many things underpinned my decision to want to and to go on to breastfeed.
I think it is probably more revealing to broadly assess - necessity v expectation aside - the socio economic aspects of formula feeding and breastfeeding as familial influence, etc as obviously those factors are more impactful.[/quote]
My apologies, I wasn't referring to you specifically, more of a general trend!
I agree, more study into contributing factors would be really useful. I think all new mums should be supported to be successful in the feeding method they choose, just as you were.

@BertieBotts

On a population level BF makes a big difference to health outcomes - that's why health services and governments should fund effective support. It's also beneficial to know what the benefits of breastfeeding are because that acts as a very useful counter to the market pressure of formula companies.

On an individual level, BF/FF is only a tiny part of a very complicated picture of health outcomes - you can't pick a BF/FF baby out of a line up once they're 2 years old, because it's not the only influence on their development. There is still a difference, but if BF is giving you PND, anxiety, pain, taking 20 hours out of your day or whatever (and these things aren't likely to improve) then it's probably not worth it - those things will likely have a knock on effect on the baby as well as breastfeeding doesn't happen in a vacuum but in the context of everything else. OTOH, sometimes breastfeeding does make a big enough difference to be worth prioritising over other things, especially if the downsides are temporary. It's about the individual situation which is why personal choice must be respected over and above anything else.

These are different arguments which is why it appears "contradictory" because the benefits on a population level are completely different to how we measure benefits on an individual level. Much like COVID lockdowns etc - on a population level the right thing to do, but some people will have been massively worse off thanks to lockdowns compared to how they would have fared against an undeterred disease. Thankfully BF is not something that the whole population needs to do or not. We can effectively allow people to choose by offering adequate support for those who do want to.

Encouraging pumping is barmy - why would you want to make it harder than it already is? No reason specifically to discourage pumping, but it also doesn't need to be added to some kind of "Breastfeeding mum to-do list" just because. And pumping is usually encouraged if there are supply issues anyway, so I think you simply have a very strange/limited idea of what breastfeeding support is actually like - you did say you found BF easy yourself, so perhaps you don't have much experience of it? Same with the mythical situation of a baby having to wait 4 days for a feed because of the date of a support group! The point is that there should be more accessible support than that (and that there are more immediate options).

Pnd is complex. In some cases breastfeeding can be the cause and cure. For example my infertility and pna definitely ramped up due to DS’ feeding round the clock and his tongue tie causing problems at the beginning, but feeding him and holding him definitely helped too. It still does - he’s 15 months old now, and holding him close really does keep the instrusive thoughts at bay.

My advice is always that to do what you want to do. If bf is important to you (as it was to me) then find ways to make it work, get medical help if required, and to hell what others think - I would often try to just stay in bed the whole day whenever possible with DS. DH was very supportive and would bring up cups of tea and snacks - and me and DS would just play, snuggle, sleep between feeds.

@Flappityflippers1

I had a horrific time with breastfeeding my first, it gave me severe mastitis then sepsis, put my DS in hospital and resulted in severe MH issues for me. He was an utterly shit latch and was frankly just crap at breastfeeding. Had all the TT checks, feeding consultants, bfing support daily etc - the bfing support couldn’t have been better, but it still didn’t make it work.

There is also nothing quite like the heartbreak of seeing your baby disappear into a bag of bones, screaming as they have blood taken and needles etc, and it’s all your fault for “persevering” with breastfeeding. I KNEW my son needed bottles and formula, but couldn’t bring myself to give it as “breast is best” 🙄

Breastfeeding destroyed my first experience of motherhood and largely contributed to how much I hated the first year etc.

Baby 2 being born on Monday and I plan to exclusively pump for this one. My son was allergic to cow milk formula when we swapped from bfing, which was like being shot in the face just after being stabbed in the heart. Plus all the bollocks that comes with sorting out prescription formula etc.

I’m dairy free anyway so makes sense to give my milk, but I’m not prepared to put myself through direct feeding this time. I’ll pump as for as long as I can manage, but under no allusions as to how hard it is!

We shall see - as long as baby gets fed, I’m happy this time around 🙂

God, that sounds awful. I hope you don’t mind me saying that this is why the benefits of bfing shouldn’t be overstated - because for some new mums, they get a distorted view of the health benefits and therefore feel it is worth going to extremes for.

If I was in charge of a new drive to promote bfing I would:

1. Stop waving the 2 year WHO stuff in new mums faces. It should start with small achievable goals that are less daunting - getting to 1 week, then 6 weeks, etc. Once they’ve cracked it it will be easier to carry on anyway.
2. Being honest about the health benefits - that there are some, which is great, but they are very small, so if you can’t bf don’t worry, your child won’t suffer or be the ‘sickly’ one
3. Promote the fact it is free, how much you could save in six months, etc
4. Offer new mums the chance to stay in a maternity home for 1-2 weeks so they can ‘crack’ it before going home. If not, it’s probably formula time
5. Stop demonising breast pumps or the odd bottle of formula so mum can get some sleep. In Sweden they’re happy to give the odd bottle, and they have very high bf rates - its in everyone’s best interests that mum is rested & well, not encouraging her to lie in bed with baby for the day or make some kind of weird oat snack. I truly believe stress and pressure is what stops mums from making enough milk, and encouraging them to try a gruelling feeding schedule or waste time messing about with porridge oats just makes it worse.

YY absolutely. I think one of the infant feeding studies showed that struggling with breastfeeding/stopping before your own personal goal was associated with higher levels of PND, which makes a lot of sense. BF can feel incredibly important, which might be personal choice, might be to do with how it's presented before birth, is probably a combination of things. Struggling and ultimately feeling to have failed is not surprising if it contributes to low mental health.

However you then get this dichotomy where some people say it's the "pressure" which is the problem and the benefits shouldn't be promoted at all, women should also be told to stop early on and not given endless support - which to me always sounds like "there should be a deadline on support given", which I disagree with.

Others say it's not the issue at all and we just need a magically perfect BF friendly society and the PND would go away. That would be nice - but not going to happen obv.

Neither is true obviously. And most people will project what they personally really needed/wanted to hear. It's really not a one size fits all thing - that's why a personalised and reflective approach is the most empathetic.

However this angers bfing mums because they feel it’s ‘undermining their achievement’. Well, I’m sorry if the facts upset you (which is usually a phrase they use to ff mums!)

Who said that?? No one

@Wondermule

Bfing mum: ‘Bfing is so much better for baby, not belittling ff mums, just stating the facts’

Me: ‘Well here’s a fact, the health benefits are negligible’

Bfing mum: ‘Stop trying to belittle me with your facts’

Couldn’t make it up could you 🙄😂

Well you just did. So yeah. You can.

And FWIW I don't really care that there's a negligible difference. Because I didn't do it to compete with anyone. I did it for me, and my child, and it wasn't about anyone else.

wondermule often seems to resort to making stuff up to make her ‘points’. It’s getting ridiculous.

I agree, however, that the nhs has poured a lot of money into telling everyone ‘breast is best’ and not nearly enough money into actually supporting those who want to breastfeed. The balance is entirely wrong and setting new mothers up to fail. Which is totally unfair.

@Wondermule

James, why are my views due to insecurity? Do you think all women that don’t think bfing is as big a deal as you do are insecure? Could it not just be they have their own opinion? You’re so defensive it sounds like you’re the insecure one if I’m honest - proved by the fact you ‘pre empted’ comments that nobody had even made 😂 sheesh

Because you are relentlessly hellbent on insisting other women shouldn't feel proud of breastfeeding. Despite it having no impact on you. You're a every about anyone who sees it as an achievement. I can't figure out why but it's obviously deeply personal and rather than dealing with it inwardly you come in a forum and laugh at women who are different to you

It really isn't clear cut, or overwhelming

@Wondermule didn't ask for something clean cut or overwhelming she asked for something "more than negligible benefit to a child's long term development

@JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows

It really isn't clear cut, or overwhelming

@Wondermule didn't ask for something clean cut or overwhelming she asked for something "more than negligible benefit to a child's long term development

And I still don’t have one.

The study speaks for itself. There is no evidence strong enough to conclude breastfeeding makes a noticeable difference to anything, bar IQ, and even then it’s 2 points.

That’s negligible to me, and I imagine most people.

James telling everyone who disagrees with you that they have internalised issues 😂 that old chestnut is used every time someone can’t think of a proper response. It’s classic ‘attack the person’, and can be used against anyone and anything. So try again 😂

@TheKeatingFive

wondermule often seems to resort to making stuff up to make her ‘points’. It’s getting ridiculous.

I agree, however, that the nhs has poured a lot of money into telling everyone ‘breast is best’ and not nearly enough money into actually supporting those who want to breastfeed. The balance is entirely wrong and setting new mothers up to fail. Which is totally unfair.

Another classic retort! What have I made up exactly? Care to be specific?

@Wondermule, are you ok? You seem very concerned by breastfeeding and it's kind of annoying to see a thread being derailed by arguments that benefit nobody.

[quote Notanotherhun]@Wondermule, are you ok? You seem very concerned by breastfeeding and it's kind of annoying to see a thread being derailed by arguments that benefit nobody.[/quote]
Yep

[quote Notanotherhun]@Wondermule, are you ok? You seem very concerned by breastfeeding and it's kind of annoying to see a thread being derailed by arguments that benefit nobody.[/quote]
I’m good thanks, just bored in the lockdown!

It’s amazing - the only poster I’ve objected to was James, for her needless little dig. And because I hold the opinion that the benefits of bf are overstated (not non existent), and therefore mums who can’t do it shouldn’t worry, posters have tried to tear me to shreds. Saying I’m belittling breast milk (wtf?) that I’m lying about my own experiences (I’m not), that I have an agenda (like what?) and that I’m internalising my own issues (what issues?).

These threads are not the domain of strong bf advocates. I am entitled to my opinion. James has posted more than me but because she holds the ‘correct’ opinion, nobody accuses her of being ‘very concerned’.

I will state my belief on whatever threads I like. I will continue to point out that the benefits of bf are negligible because they are, and no mum that can’t bf should be made to feel she is seriously compromising her child’s health. I’m sorry if that doesn’t play into the Earth mother fantasies that some of these posters hold, but it’s a fact.

And that is grand. Just dial it down. The only person coming over as completely aggro is yourself. I breastfed and actually, could care less how others feed their little ones. Nobody does. And if they do well, tough titties, life is too short to care too much.

@Notanotherhun

And that is grand. Just dial it down. The only person coming over as completely aggro is yourself. I breastfed and actually, could care less how others feed their little ones. Nobody does. And if they do well, tough titties, life is too short to care too much.

Might wanna pass the message on to James then. Wayyyy more aggressive than I have been. But she holds the ‘correct’ opinion so it won’t be seen that way.

My advice is always that to do what you want to do. If bf is important to you (as it was to me) then find ways to make it work, get medical help if required, and to hell what others thin

This is fantastic advice

I always found it pretty sore for the first 2 to 3 weeks. The supply adjusting and the nipples becoming used to it. No issues at all after that.

I think my nose would be sore if someone latched and sucked for half an hour ever 3 hours tbf. I compared this to my poor nips at the time and they did eventually get used to it.