Breastfeeding isn't easy for all mothers...?

[faithfulbird20]

What do you think? I honestly find it the most hardest thing in the world...finding the right tops, cloths, you're feeding one side the other side decides to leak a waterfall, baby doesn't want to latch properly, mild tongue tie, sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's hard and annoying, breast milk has leaked on baby's clothes, baby needs changing. Breastfeeding in front of other people, family etc...

@LimpLettice proved my point nicely.

On a population level BF makes a big difference to health outcomes - that's why health services and governments should fund effective support. It's also beneficial to know what the benefits of breastfeeding are because that acts as a very useful counter to the market pressure of formula companies.

On an individual level, BF/FF is only a tiny part of a very complicated picture of health outcomes - you can't pick a BF/FF baby out of a line up once they're 2 years old, because it's not the only influence on their development. There is still a difference, but if BF is giving you PND, anxiety, pain, taking 20 hours out of your day or whatever (and these things aren't likely to improve) then it's probably not worth it - those things will likely have a knock on effect on the baby as well as breastfeeding doesn't happen in a vacuum but in the context of everything else. OTOH, sometimes breastfeeding does make a big enough difference to be worth prioritising over other things, especially if the downsides are temporary. It's about the individual situation which is why personal choice must be respected over and above anything else.

These are different arguments which is why it appears "contradictory" because the benefits on a population level are completely different to how we measure benefits on an individual level. Much like COVID lockdowns etc - on a population level the right thing to do, but some people will have been massively worse off thanks to lockdowns compared to how they would have fared against an undeterred disease. Thankfully BF is not something that the whole population needs to do or not. We can effectively allow people to choose by offering adequate support for those who do want to.

Encouraging pumping is barmy - why would you want to make it harder than it already is? No reason specifically to discourage pumping, but it also doesn't need to be added to some kind of "Breastfeeding mum to-do list" just because. And pumping is usually encouraged if there are supply issues anyway, so I think you simply have a very strange/limited idea of what breastfeeding support is actually like - you did say you found BF easy yourself, so perhaps you don't have much experience of it? Same with the mythical situation of a baby having to wait 4 days for a feed because of the date of a support group! The point is that there should be more accessible support than that (and that there are more immediate options).

Bfing mum: ‘Bfing is so much better for baby, not belittling ff mums, just stating the facts’

Me: ‘Well here’s a fact, the health benefits are negligible’

Bfing mum: ‘Stop trying to belittle me with your facts’

Couldn’t make it up could you 🙄😂

It really didn't. I don't feel undermined by you, don't be ridiculous. BF isn't an achievement for me, it's a simple biological function. That govt and WHO are promoting for its benefits and formula companies and pharma are undermining. As you know. Whatever, you keep telling mums persevering is pointless, there's plenty of other support on here.

I agree with every word @BertieBotts you’ve phrased it all perfectly.

Thanks @bertiebotts, great post!

I had a horrific time with breastfeeding my first, it gave me severe mastitis then sepsis, put my DS in hospital and resulted in severe MH issues for me. He was an utterly shit latch and was frankly just crap at breastfeeding. Had all the TT checks, feeding consultants, bfing support daily etc - the bfing support couldn’t have been better, but it still didn’t make it work.

There is also nothing quite like the heartbreak of seeing your baby disappear into a bag of bones, screaming as they have blood taken and needles etc, and it’s all your fault for “persevering” with breastfeeding. I KNEW my son needed bottles and formula, but couldn’t bring myself to give it as “breast is best” 🙄

Breastfeeding destroyed my first experience of motherhood and largely contributed to how much I hated the first year etc.

Baby 2 being born on Monday and I plan to exclusively pump for this one. My son was allergic to cow milk formula when we swapped from bfing, which was like being shot in the face just after being stabbed in the heart. Plus all the bollocks that comes with sorting out prescription formula etc.

I’m dairy free anyway so makes sense to give my milk, but I’m not prepared to put myself through direct feeding this time. I’ll pump as for as long as I can manage, but under no allusions as to how hard it is!

We shall see - as long as baby gets fed, I’m happy this time around 🙂

James, why are my views due to insecurity? Do you think all women that don’t think bfing is as big a deal as you do are insecure? Could it not just be they have their own opinion? You’re so defensive it sounds like you’re the insecure one if I’m honest - proved by the fact you ‘pre empted’ comments that nobody had even made 😂 sheesh

@Wondermule

I agree with every word *@BertieBotts* you’ve phrased it all perfectly.

How can you agree with that post when half of it is different to some of your statements and opinions in this thread ? I’m confused

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/18/brazil-longer-babies-breastfed-more-achieve-in-life-major-study

@Cleverpolly3 because if you actually read my posts, they basically say what Bertie said, just in a different (probably more combative to be fair) way.

[quote Cleverpolly3]www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/mar/18/brazil-longer-babies-breastfed-more-achieve-in-life-major-study[/quote]
Have you read the actual study referenced in this article? It's not as clear cut as the article makes out, and the effects are very minimal.

@Wondermule Please show me any statistic which shows breastfeeding has anything more than a negligible benefit to a child’s long term health.

apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/79198/9789241505307_eng.pdf;jsessionid=AAD7904ED85BA9260D18205F8E798441?sequence=1

Here you go.

@MrsSchrute

Still effects though

Formula will never be breast milk

[quote JamesMiddletonsMarshmallows]**@Wondermule* Please show me any statistic which shows breastfeeding has anything more than a negligible benefit to a child’s long term health.*

apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/handle/10665/79198/9789241505307_eng.pdf;jsessionid=AAD7904ED85BA9260D18205F8E798441?sequence=1

Here you go. [/quote]
From the above study:

Interpreting the results of the present meta-analyses jointly with those of the two randomized trials,
our conclusions are outlined below.
Total cholesterol. There was no effect in the overall meta-analyses. In the 2007 review, there was
a significant effect among adults, which is no longer present in the updated analyses. The UK trial
of preterm infants showed a small protective effect (3), while the Belarus trial did not report on this
outcome. We conclude that breastfeeding does not seem to protect against total cholesterol levels.
Blood pressure. The pooled estimate from the high-quality studies indicates a small reduction of
less than 1 mmHg in systolic pressure among breastfed subjects, and no significant protection in
terms of diastolic pressure. Residual confounding may be an important problem. The Belarus and UK
preterm trials found no effect of breastfeeding (2,4). We conclude that the protective effect of breast-
feeding, if any, is too small to be of public health significance.
Diabetes. There was substantial protection in the pooled analyses, with a 34% reduction, but few
studies are available and their results were considerably heterogeneous. Only two high-quality stud-
ies were identified, with conflicting results (one showing an increase and another a reduction among
breastfed subjects). The randomized trials did not present any results on these outcomes. Our conclu-
sion is that further studies are needed on this outcome.
Overweight-obesity. In the pooled analyses of all studies, breastfeeding was associated with a 24%
reduction in overweight and/or obesity, but the reduction was only 12% in the high-quality studies.
Residual confounding may be still affecting these results, because protection is not evident in studies
from low and middle-income countries where the social patterning of breastfeeding is not clear cut.
The Belarus trial did not find an association (4). We conclude that breastfeeding may provide some
protection against overweight or obesity, but residual confounding cannot be ruled out.
Intelligence tests. Breastfeeding was associated with an increase in 3.5 points in normalized test
scores in the pooled analyses of all studies, and 2.2 points when only the high-quality studies are in-
cluded. The two randomized trials also found significant effects (1,5). We conclude that there is strong
evidence of a causal effect of breastfeeding on IQ, although the magnitude of this effect seems to be
modest.

It really isn't clear cut, or overwhelming. Any benefit is modest at best, and must be weighed against the needs of the mother and rest of the family. It is nowhere near as black and white as it is made out to be.

[quote Wondermule]@Cleverpolly3 because if you actually read my posts, they basically say what Bertie said, just in a different (probably more combative to be fair) way.[/quote]
Definitely more combative

That study is the same thing as what Cleverpolly posted. The conclusion was:

among those studies that adjusted for maternal intelligence, breastfeeding was associated with an additional 2.19 IQ points.

I don’t think 2 IQ points is groundbreaking stuff, given the average adult is somewhere between 85 points and 115 points.

[quote Cleverpolly3]@MrsSchrute

Still effects though

Formula will never be breast milk[/quote]
Really? Well I never 😂😂

@Wondermule

This thread is not having a good effect on you

You are arguing for arguing’s sake.

[quote Cleverpolly3]@MrsSchrute

Still effects though

Formula will never be breast milk[/quote]
No it won't. My point is that the difference is so minimal, that it really isn't worth getting worked up about.

I was lucky and found breastfeeding easy. It's sad that something so natural is so hard for many women. I know a few young women who've chosen to bottle feed right from the beginning and I find that quite sad.

[quote Cleverpolly3]@Wondermule

This thread is not having a good effect on you

You are arguing for arguing’s sake.[/quote]
Says the person who when confronted with the facts says: ‘Well... it will never be breast milk will it!!’

I’m not arguing, I’m stating facts and you don’t like them. That’s all that’s happening here 🤷🏼‍♀️ Which is ironic because that’s usually what bf mums say to ff mums.

@Wondermule

That study is the same thing as what Cleverpolly posted. The conclusion was:

among those studies that adjusted for maternal intelligence, breastfeeding was associated with an additional 2.19 IQ points.

I don’t think 2 IQ points is groundbreaking stuff, given the average adult is somewhere between 85 points and 115 points.

I don’t breastfeed my children because a study suggested it might potentially increase their IQ

I did it because I wanted to and thankfully I was able to.
The benefits of it are just that: benefits.

I genuinely don’t understand why you have devoted goodness knows how much of your Saturday to this thread.

I fed both my two children until almost 2 years old. Both latched easily, I had loads of milk and it worked like a dream. It's still not easy. Being solely responsible for feeding someone to keep them alive is A LOT. The night feeds, the cluster feeds, having to surrender your body to someone else beyond the 9 months of pregnancy. Leaking milk, mastitis, weaning. Even when it works perfectly breastfeeding is not easy.

@Cleverpolly3

Good for you, most cite the ‘incredible health benefits’ though.

And boredom, mainly! Lockdown is nearly over though 💪🏻