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F1 2021 and we have a Schumacher on the grid again

490 replies

en0la · 12/03/2021 17:45

In the absence of a F1 forum I'd like to chat about all things F1 Grand Prix.

How will the season go? How will the newest Schumacher fare ?

I can't wait for the first race.

OP posts:
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5
prh47bridge · 12/12/2021 19:07

It seems the stewards have rejected Mercedes challenge. I expect they will now appeal.

MaryStuart · 12/12/2021 19:08

Yes exactly. All very unedifying.
Eugghh - don’t play ‘we are the champions’ either.

BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 19:09

Once the last lapped car has passed the race leader, the race can restart at the end of the following lap.

But there was still a lapped car. Kubica was still lapped. Yes it's an annoying technicality, but it's there.

Anyway, it seems like they've rejected Mercedes' appeal so they will probably take it to court now. Against the FIA I hope, because they are the ones who created this mess.

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GrouchyKiwi · 12/12/2021 19:09

I wonder if Masi will resign. It's his cock up.

BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 19:12

Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following:

That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal.

That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message “Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap.

So basically, Article 15.3 is a grey area of the regulations which allowed Masi to make the decisions today.

meh12 · 12/12/2021 19:13

Not surprised at the decision but what a shit way to end a season. Also think it's somewhat BS that the race director can basically just do what he wants, which in theory could work but when F1 is now American owned and running more like a "reality" TV show it's going to be all about the drama than fair sporting.

I hope they do take it to court to challenge not the championship but this new approach to F1, this season has been more about stewards' decisions than driving.

GrouchyKiwi · 12/12/2021 19:14

What rubbish. Sporting regulations should be clear and defined. There shouldn't be grey areas, even in highly complicated sports. You can't have a proper competition if competitors are unsure about what the rules are. They really need to fix this, probably with legal minds that will help them see all the permutations of each regulation.

BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 19:15

What this man is saying, basically. Finishing under green flag conditions isn't a rule. It's this 'let's put on a show' approach, by the new owners of F1.

Mindareno · 12/12/2021 19:15

@BHX3000

Having considered the various statements made by the parties the Stewards determine the following:

That Article 15.3 allows the Race Director to control the use of the safety car, which in our determination includes its deployment and withdrawal.

That although Article 48.12 may not have been applied fully, in relation to the safety car returning to the pits at the end of the following lap, Article 48.13 overrides that and once the message “Safety Car in this lap” has been displayed, it is mandatory to withdraw the safety car at the end of that lap.

So basically, Article 15.3 is a grey area of the regulations which allowed Masi to make the decisions today.

It’s total bullshit though. Basically saying that although we have regulations to control various scenarios, Masi can just disregard them for any reason he chooses and make it up as he goes along. There was absolutely no reason not to apply 48.12 “fully”
BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 19:15

I hope they do take it to court to challenge not the championship but this new approach to F1, this season has been more about stewards' decisions than driving.

I completely agree with this.

GrouchyKiwi · 12/12/2021 19:16

@meh12

Not surprised at the decision but what a shit way to end a season. Also think it's somewhat BS that the race director can basically just do what he wants, which in theory could work but when F1 is now American owned and running more like a "reality" TV show it's going to be all about the drama than fair sporting.

I hope they do take it to court to challenge not the championship but this new approach to F1, this season has been more about stewards' decisions than driving.

Absolutely. It's really killing my enjoyment of the sport.

We were at Silverstone this year. It was incredible. We want to be able to take our children with us when they're a bit older.

Swirlywoo · 12/12/2021 19:21

Agree @meh12

It was all over for Lewis when MM made that decision and he knew it. It was therefore essentially a fix. I am however not surprised that they have found a grey area to allow it to pass.

MaryStuart · 12/12/2021 19:29

@BHX3000

I hope they do take it to court to challenge not the championship but this new approach to F1, this season has been more about stewards' decisions than driving.

I completely agree with this.

Yes - I agree with this too. Leave the Championship. That’s done now, unfortunately. Shitty way for it to end though.

But absolutely, they need to challenge the lack of clarity around the rules & regs.

prh47bridge · 12/12/2021 19:30

@BHX3000

Once the last lapped car has passed the race leader, the race can restart at the end of the following lap.

But there was still a lapped car. Kubica was still lapped. Yes it's an annoying technicality, but it's there.

Anyway, it seems like they've rejected Mercedes' appeal so they will probably take it to court now. Against the FIA I hope, because they are the ones who created this mess.

No, it is not a technicality. The rule is clear. Once all the lapped cars have passed the race leader, the race restarts no sooner than the end of the following lap. Kubica had passed the race leader. The fact he was still lapped is irrelevant.
BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 19:34

But if he's still a lapped car, then the race can't be restarted. He's a lapped car, he needs to pass the race leader.

Unfortunately the rule doesn't define 'lapped' car and as we've seen today, the Race Director can decide himself when and how a SC is deployed or brought in. Which makes teams unable to gain anything from a protest when the above scenario happens.

meh12 · 12/12/2021 19:44

We were at Silverstone this year. It was incredible. We want to be able to take our children with us when they're a bit older.

We were there this year too, first time with the kids, it was an amazing day (admittedly Mercedes/Hamilton fans!) we have tickets to Canada next year but not as pumped for it after today I have to admit.

MaryStuart · 12/12/2021 19:54

Just seen this on the BBC

Mercedes have lodged their intention to appeal the decision of the stewards to dismiss the team's protest.

BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 19:59

They will appeal, it can go to the ICA (still within the FIA), they can then refer it to the CAS if what I have read is correct. Unless it's dismissed quickly - unlikely, over Christmas - we'll be hearing about this for a while yet.

prh47bridge · 12/12/2021 20:03

@BHX3000

But if he's still a lapped car, then the race can't be restarted. He's a lapped car, he needs to pass the race leader.

Unfortunately the rule doesn't define 'lapped' car and as we've seen today, the Race Director can decide himself when and how a SC is deployed or brought in. Which makes teams unable to gain anything from a protest when the above scenario happens.

Yes, he's a lapped car. He has passed the race leader. The fact he is still a lapped car is irrelevant. The rule is clear - once the last car has passed the race leader the race can restart. Your attempt to twist it into the last car having to pass the race leader several times if they have been lapped more than once does not sit with the actual wording of the rule.
GrouchyKiwi · 12/12/2021 20:15

Yes, it just says that lapped cars should overtake the leader, not that they should unlap themselves.

Newmum110 · 12/12/2021 20:20

In sport there will always be decisions that impact results. I think today's decisions not to penalise Hamilton for the first incident was incorrect as was the safety car decision. However if an appeal changes the result I think they would need to look at every controversial decision which happened over the course of the season & there was many of them. I am happy for Max his victory shouldn't be overshadowed & I also think Lewis came across well in the aftermath. This is sport, this is what happens.

Sparklingbrook · 12/12/2021 20:26

Interesting conspiracy theory-

www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f1/mick-michael-schumacher-lewis-hamilton-25679513

Angelcupcake · 12/12/2021 20:27

We had to watch the race late...
I'm so gutted for Lewis 😢
Felt like crying

Sparklingbrook · 12/12/2021 20:29

Yes it was a tough watch @Angelcupcake and not how it should have been at all. Wine

BHX3000 · 12/12/2021 20:38

[quote Sparklingbrook]Interesting conspiracy theory-

www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/f1/mick-michael-schumacher-lewis-hamilton-25679513[/quote]
One fan tweeted: "Mick Schumacher masterclass by causing Latifi to crash, bringing out the safety car, allowing max to win, meaning Michael Schumacher doesn’t lose his record."

Yes, because Mick knew exactly how many laps it would take for them to clear the car, he knew the barriers wouldn’t be damaged by the crash (and therefore require a longer SC), he knew Lewis wasn’t inside the safe SC pitstop window and he also knew Max had a free one, and what his available compounds were 😂

At the end of the day Lewis is going down in history as one of the greatest drivers ever, and he’s already broken more records than Schumacher ever did. I don’t think anyone doubts what an amazing driver and incredible personality Lewis Hamilton is, regardless of today. It’s the fourth time he loses a championship in the last race - the incredible thing is him having been in that position so many times. He’s a legend.