Not really sure why I am writing this, but predatory men

[CormoranStrike]

Not all men of course, but here’s my history - and these are just the ones I remember.

Aged 12 - a man masturbated in front of me as I walked home with friends along a quiet country lane

Aged 15 - doing my paper round in the rain and a man offered me a lift. He did not give off good vibes at all and my spider senses kicked in.

Aged 19 - heavy breathing, sexually explicit phone calls at work.

Aged 30 - colleague kissed me on the back of my neck in the office to say well done about a work thing. I was too stunned to move.

Aged 48 - colleague asks me to go for drinks to discuss a work problem. Then proceeds to blatantly ask for an affair.

I am a very ordinary looking woman. I was a very shy child. I give no indication whatsoever of wanting these approaches.

And yet again my heart sinks hearing of the tragic loss of another young woman who - like us all - deserved better, and has fallen victim to someone (the case is active and I am deliberately not naming names).

Why do some men think we are fair game? What can we do to help change this?

Sorry you’ve experienced those things,sadly I’m not surprised. It’s common
I get aerated at the suggestion women need to curtail their activities to prevent just in case...
don’t go out in dark (just in case)
Don’t walk alone (just in case)
Don’t wear headphones (just in case)
Do always get a cab (just in case)
Do make sure some meets you off the bus (just in case)
Don’t wear that (just in case)
We are expected to anticipate and prevent predatory men from attacking or frightening us.
It’s not my responsibility to stop men being inappropriate

Men need to change. I’m not naive, we will never prevent all crime.

But why are some men so entitled?

There is nothing at all that we can do if we want to live our lives freely because it isnt our behaviour that needs to change.

Obviously I know the case you're referring to op. Was desperately hoping for a different outcome. Heartbroken for her loved ones - and for her.

I feel unbelievably sad tonight. So very sad and angry.

I have experienced similar OP , including the kiss on the neck < shudder>
I feel furious that this is the world my lovely daughters are going out into .

@Hangingover

I feel unbelievably sad tonight. So very sad and angry.

Me too

Because they can be, because women and society raise them to be
Some culture value men more than women
Millions of years privilege & advantage it’s a given they want to retain it
Conscious and unconscious preferential treatment
Historically Disbarring women from professions, not so long ago women couldn’t train as lawyers,surgeons, art commission went to men

I read mn women pandering to their men in domestic & familial settings, they give up work, because he can’t be expected to
Women stepping aside or down for men

Change. It comes incrementally and by challenging and pushing

And yet so many people believe we shouldn't have and don't need a right to single sex spaces anymore.

I was thinking about that case all evening, so terrible. I was just about to go to the shop for my Lucozade pink lemonade addiction but am hesitating.

Seen the Update that they've found a body. So so sad.

I don't think there's anything we personally can do. There needs to be societal/cultural change but how to start?

Start individually, seek likeminded friends/colleagues to try change attitudes & behaviour

@Frownette

I was thinking about that case all evening, so terrible. I was just about to go to the shop for my Lucozade pink lemonade addiction but am hesitating.

What are you hesitant about?Going out to the shops, why?

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee well it creates doubt in your mind that it's safe when you read about things like this. It's about a 10 minute walk.

I feel the same. I have had similar and far more ‘serious’ experiences too.

Having this burden of fearing being attacked, having to take all the advice, curtailing our freedoms accordingly etc. Such an outrage women still have to put up with this but I really don’t know how to change it.

Are there societies around the world where this isn’t the the case? How have they created that dynamic?

I get it’s hard to reverse thousands of years or this shit but is there a way.

If it’s any reassurance homicide perpetrated by stranger is very rare really
Sadly you’re more likely to be killed by your partner than a random violent act
But I don’t think we should curtail our spontaneity on basis of just in case

If it’s any reassurance homicide perpetrated by stranger is very rare really
Sadly you’re more likely to be killed by your partner than a random violent act

Nothing in that is reassuring, really.

People are sad and angry.

Its not just the risk of being killed, its the almost endemic levels of male sexual entitlement and the reaction when women dare say no.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee

If it’s any reassurance homicide perpetrated by stranger is very rare really Sadly you’re more likely to be killed by your partner than a random violent act But I don’t think we should curtail our spontaneity on basis of just in case

It's no reassurance.

I think I read that in Kenya there was a program of educating adolescent boys about female bodily autonomy to lessen the rates of sexual violence against women that had had some success.

Well you really can’t stay in just in case. Too worried to go out for 10min
Like with all activities you risk assess weigh up pro/cons.
Driving increases likelihood of an RTA, but most still drive.
I’m simply saying there’s a what’s the likelihood/ risk management approach when making decisions

Precovid, I like to go to the pub, but i could have my drink spiked. I weigh that up with the fact I want to go out and it’s unlikely to happen, and I’ll try be vigilant or leave my drink with my friend . On balance I’ll take the risk

The thing is, you don't need to be raped and beaten on the way home to feel scared of walking. It could be the man walking 6 foot behind, whatever you change your pace to. The same van that keeps driving by. The car load of lads screaming abuse out of the window as they go past. The man walking towards you who isn't going to get out of your way. The man shouting cheer up love from his balcony. You're not going to report any of that. You're just not going to walk home alone again.

I was thinking about this last night and couldn't sleep. I grew up in London and have become used to being alert. I moved to a small village 3 years ago with woods and countryside and initially I was too nervous to walk there alone or with dd. Now we walk there every day. When she's at school I walk around the local common listening to podcasts, surrounded by trees. I don't worry. My fear had gone. This is how we should all feel all the time. Hearing about this poor girl has reminded me of that fear. I am also so angry , everything that she had in front of her , just gone. What a waste.

Men kill women so often - be it partners or family or strangers. It happens so regularly. It feels as if our society is churning out murderers. I don't understand why or how. I wish this was taken more seriously and concerted action taken to tackle it.

@HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee I just went to the shop. I figured if a strange man approached me I could throw my pink lemonade at him :)

It's so true what you said about a mental checklist of your actions

HeelsHandbagPerfumeCoffee you're not really reading the room tbh.