Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

[Cotbedy]

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

A few of dds friends are at uni living in both halls and in rented accommodation. There are parties virtually every night with in the groups.
One friend who lives with 12 other people in a house gets visited regularly by the police to check there aren’t people from outside the household there
She got sick of the checks and disruption and is now doing her course on line at home whilst paying rent for a house she doesn’t live in

@MummyMayo1988

It's definitely harsh but fair I think. If they can't follow a simple quarantine rule now (as teens) what will they be like as adults?

Hardly a fair comparison. Teenagers are just like toddlers, only bigger. Their brains are still busily re-wiring themselves. Most thoughtless teenagers turn into perfectly decent and responsible adults.

To be honest I don’t even know what you are or aren’t allowed to do.
Only because I have a very boring life and friends are miles away I have complied with lockdown, more by accident than design.

Most of the uni students I know through dc have already had Covid so they won’t be spreading anything.

@Bythemillpond

To be honest I don’t even know what you are or aren’t allowed to do. Only because I have a very boring life and friends are miles away I have complied with lockdown, more by accident than design.

Most of the uni students I know through dc have already had Covid so they won’t be spreading anything.

Unis have been telling students repeatedly about their rules - my son has had almost weekly emails with warnings about complying with the rules (especially socialising/parties) and consequences for breaking the rules. There is no excuse for any student who went ahead - there's no way they didn't know a party with other people was against the rules and that there were hefty punishments for it, including expulsion.

For those repeat offenders, they also will have had strong warnings about future conduct. Doing it once may be a mistake, doing it again and again is just sticking 2 fingers up at the Uni and expulsion is the right sanction for those students!

As for "most" students having covid. That's not the case in most unis. At my son's there are 14,000 students and the Uni's official figures show only around 500 have had covid, the peak being last October with maybe 25 per day on average testing positive. In my son's flat, only 1 out of the 8 of them caught covid (and he was the idiotic party-goer!).

Universities have issued warning after warning about this and I would very much doubt they are first time offenders.

From a reputational POV they have to show that they are supporting compliance and will deal with non compliance in a severe manner.

The Univetsities returning was one of the main reasons for the last spike in my neighbouring area and they really are doing their best to disperse, warn and move on but in some instances expulsion has been the last option available.

In my Dds friends house one person caught Covid (they think from her mother just before she returned to uni. You don’t have to be a party animal to contract Covid) and because they all had to stay inside they purposely tried to all get it at once so they wouldn’t have to isolate for any extended period
Only one didn’t get it. But he thought he’d had it before.

I disagree. The punishment is a fine. Not kicking them out of education.

@MorePotatoSalad

I disagree. The punishment is a fine. Not kicking them out of education.

No one's "kicking them out of education". They're free to continue their education at a different Uni.

@user1497207191

No one's "kicking them out of education". They're free to continue their education at a different Uni.

If they can find one stupid enough to take them on, with their 'toddler brains'.

The degree of hatred for students on here is fascinating.

Have none of you ever been a student or had a child at university? Is it some kind of weird jealousy/inferiority complex that makes so many people view students as some kind of low-life?

FWIW, there are some dicks among them - but on the whole, students are great.

I was a student years ago. Not all students are as entitled as this.

Most are perfectly capable of following the law, and even if they made the mistake of going to a party once, they wouldn't repeatedly do it after having been warned of the potential consequences.

Most students are perfectly capable of understanding that even though they personally may not be at high risk of severe covid, there are other people they come into contact with who aren't so lucky (peers with health conditions, ancillary staff etc.) and adjust their behaviour accordingly.

That's why I support the Uni's decision. If these students were warned repeatedly and chose to believe they were entitled to ignore those warnings, well they deserve the consequences.

FWIW, there are some dicks among them

Yes, those would be the ones throwing repeated illegal parties, and not giving a shit about the potential risks they are exposing their peers and staff to.

I’ve been a student in the last 7 years. I will be again in September.

I didn’t consider myself above the law. It’s not hatred to suggest that students should face consequences for illegal activity that endangers the lives of others. Universities should be safe and compliant. Those who refuse to keep it that way shouldn’t be there.

FWIW, there are some dicks among them - but on the whole, students are great.

Yes, we know that most students are great. But in the situation we're discussing, the students were dicks.

Have none of you ever been a student or had a child at university? Is it some kind of weird jealousy/inferiority complex that makes so many people view students as some kind of low-life?

Of course. And some students were great. And others were complete dicks. No different to the rest of the population really.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable you presumably didn't read the post where I said I was a university lecturer, and I do not feel that my life is being endangered by students having parties.

However, I do feel that all our lives are being endangered (not necessarily literally) by the people whom Covid has brought out of the woodwork and who demand 100% compliance all the time, with a nice little double punishment at the end if you don't do as your told.

University is partly supposed to be about challenging received wisdoms. Covid isn't the best way for students to test this out - but I am glad that there are still some young people around who don't just meekly do as they are told.

@Totopoly

The degree of hatred for students on here is fascinating.

Have none of you ever been a student or had a child at university? Is it some kind of weird jealousy/inferiority complex that makes so many people view students as some kind of low-life?

FWIW, there are some dicks among them - but on the whole, students are great.

Yes, on the whole they are great. That's why it's only the odd one who gets thrown out for repeatedly breaking the rules that the vast majority manage to comply with.

My son is in his first year. He was in a campus flat of 8. 7 of them followed the rules, 1 didn't and he's the one who caught covid at a drink/drug fuelled party that none of the others went to! The other 7 have "partied" in their own flat only with eachother, which was basically getting a takeway delivered once a week where they crowded into the cramped tiny kitchen to eat it together.

As always, it's the small minority who don't comply, whether in covid times or normal times. The vast, vast, majority follow the rules. It's completely unfair for them all to be lumped together. If it weren't for the tiny minority of idiots who can't behave, there'd probably be more "face to face" teaching and more amenities/facilities open on campus. It's because the small minority can't behave that entire blocks are closed and many of the staff/lecturers havn't set foot on campus in nearly a year!

[quote Totopoly]@ReceptacleForTheRespectable you presumably didn't read the post where I said I was a university lecturer, and I do not feel that my life is being endangered by students having parties.

However, I do feel that all our lives are being endangered (not necessarily literally) by the people whom Covid has brought out of the woodwork and who demand 100% compliance all the time, with a nice little double punishment at the end if you don't do as your told.

University is partly supposed to be about challenging received wisdoms. Covid isn't the best way for students to test this out - but I am glad that there are still some young people around who don't just meekly do as they are told.[/quote]
But are you actually on campus teaching face to face as normal? Or are you in a "safe" bubble doing socially distanced small group teaching or working from home?

Would you feel so safe if Unis were operating as normal?

[quote Totopoly]@ReceptacleForTheRespectable you presumably didn't read the post where I said I was a university lecturer, and I do not feel that my life is being endangered by students having parties.

However, I do feel that all our lives are being endangered (not necessarily literally) by the people whom Covid has brought out of the woodwork and who demand 100% compliance all the time, with a nice little double punishment at the end if you don't do as your told.

University is partly supposed to be about challenging received wisdoms. Covid isn't the best way for students to test this out - but I am glad that there are still some young people around who don't just meekly do as they are told.[/quote]
I'm also a university lecturer, and I completely agree with this.

University students are nearly all amongst the most motivated and brightest young people out there. But they are young, and many of them are living away from home far younger than most non students do.

Bloody Hell - just re-read my own post, and there's a 'your' in there. WTF?

Never mind students: I need flogging for that.

@user1497207191 I wouldn't give it a second thought. But I'm no more concerned about Covid than I would be about anything else that's doing the rounds. I have never signed up to the hysteria about it.

The fact that you as a lecturer feel safe isn't really relevant.

Those students will be dealt with, face to face, by cleaners and security staff etc. who may be in at risk groups. They will have peers, other students, who are in at risk groups. They will be visiting shops etc. where they come into contact with the public. You may be confident that Covid is not a worry for you, but not everyone is that lucky.

@ReceptacleForTheRespectable

The fact that you as a lecturer feel safe isn't really relevant.

Those students will be dealt with, face to face, by cleaners and security staff etc. who may be in at risk groups. They will have peers, other students, who are in at risk groups. They will be visiting shops etc. where they come into contact with the public. You may be confident that Covid is not a worry for you, but not everyone is that lucky.

There will also be some students with health conditions making them vulnerable who will also be living in halls/flats, so the other students living with them, sharing kitchens/bathrooms, etc need to follow rules to protect them. My DS is in a flat of 8 with a girl who has a health condition and all the other students really did everything they could to protect her (except one!). Only those with the most serious health conditions were allocated separate rooms as the Uni had a very limited number of self contained flats.

There will also be some students with health conditions making them vulnerable who will also be living in halls/flats, so the other students living with them, sharing kitchens/bathrooms, etc need to follow rules to protect them. My DS is in a flat of 8 with a girl who has a health condition and all the other students really did everything they could to protect her (except one!).

EXACTLY! I was one of those students, and was MORE clinically vulnerable then than I am now! I depended on other people's willingness to accommodate my health issues. Most people were helpful enough; a few weren't , e.g. the lecturer who used to smoke right in our faces.

I am a lecturer now, and mostly find the students great! I don't think students are worse than the rest of the population by any means: often more thoughtful than many older people. I do think that there are some people who are intolerant of other people's health issues, and think that anyone who isn't as tough in some way (physically or mentally) as other people is just a spoilt brat who deserves no accommodations. This probably happens more to students than by students; but students who place their need for a fun party above the needs of their shielding neighbour, or their 60-year-old lecturer, or the cleaner with asthma, are also basically demonstrating this attitude.

I am glad that there are still some young people around who don't just meekly do as they are told.

It's not about meekly doing as your're told. It's about accommodating other people's health needs. And your own: while a previously healthy young person is unlikely to actually die of Covid, it could still cause long-lasting health problems. But if people want to risk their own health, it's up to them; but they should not endanger others, and certainly should not regard doing so as some sort of justified rebellion against the silly old rules.

@Kazzyhoward that is awful but I don't honestly believe any level of measures from people who live together would stop it.

Does that mean Rita Ora is no longer allowed to continue with her career then and is "cancelled"? Because she paid a fine with no other consequence.