Students thrown off course for throwing a party.

[Cotbedy]

Basically, a load of students held a party of around 16/17 people. They got reported, they all got a £400 fine, apart from the host who got a £10,000 fine.

Then their Uni kicked them all off their courses for bringing the Uni into disrepute.

I think this is probably a fair and reasonable punishment, but DP thinks the Uni have gone too far and they're being unfair.

I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on the matter! Fair or unreasonable?

[quote SofiaMichelle]@Stirmecrazy

I am continually amazed how we talk about students being adults with responsibilities for their actions and yet we have spent the last year controlling all their actions , where they can live, what they can do , when they can leave campus when they can go...

Where have you been to not have realised the above applied to everyone in the UK?

No one was allowed to travel to second homes, etc, which is essentially what it would be if they were leaving campus to go to another home.[/quote]
Yes but many students have found themselves in the situation of paying for campus accomodation they can no longer access with no rent rebate available (although many campus accomodation has offered rent rebates not all) . They are also paying £9000 for virtual courses after being promised face to face. They have been denied access to libraries ,labs and other Uni facilities. Many have been effectively confined to their bedrooms. Some unis have tried barricading them into their halls, charging for isolation boxes , banning them from any support bubbles. My DD is doing a medical vocational degree and I am actually concerned she will not have received the level of training and education this year to actually effectively pursue this career but she is still paying full fees. There has been no compensation from any University for what cannot be denied is substandard (through no fault of unis) education. I am fully aware that we have all had restrictions but most of us have been allowed to go to work, go to school, have support bubble and receive free support if needed.
We are not talking deprivation of our second home in Cornwall here. We are talking about students who were effectively promised an education with face to face lectures and then massive u turns from the universities leaving then trapped in rental contracts they cant get out of and student loans they are stuck with . And yes I know there is a pandemic but this dosent stop me from recognising students are having a raw deal here effectively paying for services they can’t access.

@GCAcademic

Being chucked out of university (not "uni") is a completely arbitrary second punishment.

If you want a crap parenting comparison: what the university has done is the equivalent of a parent "disciplining" a child by saying: "You're losing all your screen time this month ... and I'm cancelling your birthday party, just for good measure."

No, it wasn't a second punishment. It was a punishment for a repeat offence. To continue your crap parenting analogy, you are in favour of continuing to issue a punishment on each occasion that clearly has no deterrent for your child.

Hang on a sec. I wasn't the one who started the 'shit parenting analogy' bit of this thread.

And please don't tell me what I am in favour of or not in favour of.

I will tell you that I am not in favour of the rules, but if the government imposes the rules and the penalties, then one has to abide by that or take the penalty.

Nowhere has the government published any rule for which the sanction is not only being fined but losing your job/education.

(though they are evidently not interested in education, given that they are continuing to deprive students of this).

I am a university lecturer, btw. And the thing I want more than anything is to be teaching students face to face. I am not in the slightest bit concerned that they are Covid-carriers (not least as I have my own student children at home at the moment).

No this is totally wrong . There have been gatherings of similar outside in public populous the football world for example ! And are they having their futures removed from them no . This year has been bad enough fine them yes final warning yes but kick them off a course that barely stands upto want was promised to them and is costing them thousands no .

If I had a party with my colleagues, I wouldn’t be sacked. This has much bigger consequences for these kids futures - it’s wrong imo.

Futures removed?

As has been said a few times, suspensions have been levied. Nobody can find a case of someone being permanently removed from a course..

Even if they did that can can for a year, with place, fees etc possibly being held over.

The level of the fine and a suspension is scary enough, the pudding doesn't need to be over egged, especially after this many posts!

Totally fair - they put others lives in danger, which has to be punished severely like drink driving - I'm with you on this - they need to grow up and realise the danger of what they did and pay up quietly

Just shows the signs of the times where everything is too PC

Too PC!
Breaking the law is breaking the law. Who are they to decide which one is too PC to follow.

I’d lose my job if I did this.

They can reapply when they’ve decided to grow up and be law abiding citizens again. It’s hyperbole to suggest they will have no future. They’ll be delayed a year and will have to go somewhere different. If indeed they WERE actually excluded as opposed to suspended.

I think its reasonable, they broke the law and their actions could lead to covid transmission and death.

@Spaceshiphaslanded

If I had a party with my colleagues, I wouldn’t be sacked. This has much bigger consequences for these kids futures - it’s wrong imo.

What about if the party was on your employer's premises? You'd be sacked then, I bet.

If it's the one held near to where I live, it wasn't 16 or 17 people, it was over 150. A lot ran away, setting off fire alarms and generally causing mayhem. The penalties seem fair enough to me.

Does seem harsh. Suspension yes, but actually being thrown out seems over the top. Having to repeat a year would be enough surely?

@angela99999

I think its reasonable, they broke the law and their actions could lead to covid transmission and death.

Oh goody, we've almost returned to PEOPLE MIGHT DIE and STAY THE FUCK AT HOME.

You do know that we're all going to die at some point, don't you?

If I drive to Tesco now, I might kill someone. A car can easily become a lethal weapon. I hope I don't, though, and I most probably won't.

I'd say the same about Covid and students.

To those who think it was unfair - what level of crime committed on university premises, to the detriment of other students/staff, after repeated warnings, do you think would warrant expulsion?

Buggering the Bursar?

I think whatever Uni ,it was reacted in a over the top,extreme way.
(they blew it out of prospective ) !

Just giving out fines to every body who attended this party and a massive fine obviously the party organiser, was sufficient /good enough.

As obviously word will get out,travel fast like wild fire, that that university and universities will not put up with this kind of Rebblion behaviour.!

This university has set a precidence Now,....

Sounds fair to me - behave like a twat - get treated like a twat. They know to not have gatherings, they know how serious it is. Not only did they break the rules they made the university look stupid. If you behaved like that in the work place you would get sacked so they have learnt the hard way that actions have consequences.

Mind you with so many 'influencers' and celebs doing what the hell they fancy and getting away with it (when you have millions a £10K fine is just pennies and they wont think twice about just paying a fine to do what they want.) it's not really a good influence for others.

If my kids had thrown a party i would be bloody livid. They would be paying that fine off by themselves through bloody hard work and getting themselves into a new uni for next year and pulling their bloody socks up!

I'd be absolutely amazed if this was applied to a first offence. They have probably had multiple warnings before this. We are aware of one particular flat which causes issues every weekend. The other students are the ones wanting action to protect their well-being. Universities really don't want to take this kind of action but if all other channels are ignored, what is the alternative?

it's unreasonable, because although they have broken the rules, their future shouldn't be altered based on this (yes i know they should be aware of the consequences and be accountable) however

how many of us can say, they have truly followed every single, rule, guidance and charge. i know i haven't.

i'd appeal the decision and aim to gring attention to it.

i also think it is difficult when people can see say things like footballers carrying on with things (yes tests etc) but it gives the false impression things are as they were.

they were reckless to throw the party, but i fear the punishment is dissproportinate

Completely fair.

The rules and the consequences of breaking them are made very clear to students.

Too harsh they got fined. Leave there issue a last warning that they will get kicked off.
Well they won’t be laying their fines or uni fees as got no means now so taxpayer end up footing it.

I think it is harsh. Everyone else would just get the fine, not the additional penalty. Would you expect to loose you job for this? That would be the equivalent.

It would be more reasonable to say they could not stay in University accommodation (assuming it was University accommodation) for a fixed period.

If it was in private accommodation then the University should just leave it to the police.

The students I have been aware of have been fined by College/University and only in the more serious/repeated cases asked to leave the accommodation. Not the course.

Absolutely fair they are adults who chose to break the law

@Purpl

Too harsh they got fined. Leave there issue a last warning that they will get kicked off. Well they won’t be laying their fines or uni fees as got no means now so taxpayer end up footing it.

How many "last" warnings do they need?

Entirely fair an appropriate.
You’re not automatically entitled to a university education. If you want one then you need to act like a responsibly adult.
They’re 18+ not 8. They would have been aware of the potential for losing their placements.

Would you expect to loose you job for this? That would be the equivalent.

If I had a party during Covid on my employer's premises?

In circumstances which meant that clients and other employees were forced to into close proximity with my partygoers, regardless of the fact they might be vulnerable to Covid?

Repeatedly, after being caught doing it before and being formally warned not to do it again?

Yes, I'd definitely expect to lose my job.