So hurt for my daughter - do I say something?

[SquarePeggyLeggy]

I am really upset and want to check it’s reasonable to say anything and if so what and when.
I don’t think my sister in law likes us all that much, but it’s always civil and not unpleasant, she just doesn’t pursue any relationship with me or closeness for the cousins really, but does always take me up on invitations. I feel kept at arms length by my brother too, but again, always comes anywhere they’re invited and stays in touch at least once a week. I tried to push a closer relationship, but it’s clear they don’t want that, so for the last several years, I just backed right off and am here if they need, rather than trying to be friends per se. The exception to this has always been my daughter and niece, they are 6 months apart. They are close and get on well, and we have my niece for sleepovers etc sometimes, they’ve got their own relationship going. We are always invited to their parties etc.
They are 8.
This year my brother told me his daughter didn’t want a party. She was going to catch up with “a couple of friends” one day, us the next, and then the grandparents the following weekend. I said: “we can drop daughter off to one of those other things, we don’t all have to come”. He insisted that she’d asked to spend the day just with us, and “didn’t want a party”. It all felt weird, and like we were being ring fenced, I don’t know but convinced myself I was paranoid.
Cue today: SIL posts a bunch of pictures on Instagram, they’ve had a full on, pony ride party with a bunch of kids, has to be 30. Its a mix of their friends kids and school friends so it’s not just a school party, and anyway, they said there was no party?
It’s allowed here, btw.
We are supposed to have our catch up tomorrow and I just feel sick to my stomach. I felt they were leaving us out and this was our consolation to make us feel better, and I was right! For some reason they need to segregate us away from their friends and family. I have no idea what’s happened, and my daughter is 8! The girls haven’t had words, nothing like that, I’m so confused!
Do I say something? I just feel crushed for my daughter who thinks they’re besties. I don’t know how to act tomorrow! I want to cancel, but it’s not my niece’s fault! What do I do?

Cancelling the meeting will upset your daughter. Telling her about the party will upset your daughter. Why would you deliberately do that to your own child?

I don't think OP will tell her daughter but it's very likely the niece will want to talk about it.

I'd have to pull my brother and ask him why the blatant lie, he wasn't even vague about it.

@SilverBirchWithout

I was just curious about why you would say she needed to back off when their interactions are down to the bare minimum anyway.

It’s not an interrogation. Lol.

I thought this must be a zombie thread but it is not. How come everyone is socialising. 30+ kids at a party and two households meeting?

@JellyNo15 not everyone is in the UK. NZ and Aus have few restrictions currently.

@WithLoveFromMyselfToYourself

I think people, including OP, are being a bit unrealistic about the “lie” element. Of course it’s disappointing and uncomfortable, but it’s the kind of white lie people very frequently fall into out of fear of a conversation getting awkward. There are a number of reasons why they may have wanted to keep it to her school friends, many already mentioned. Eight is an age when girls often hit a mini adolescence and get more cliquey and peer driven. It’s possible that DN is experimenting with new personas at school. They often compartmentalise a lot at that age. She might not have wanted her cousin coming and unintentionally outing her as still liking X & Y and not having been a fan of KSI since being in utero. However the important thing is that there are separate arrangements to see you so the relationship isn’t being shut down. For your daughter’s sake I’d hide my upset, which I do get, and just carry on. Very soon the cousin relationship will be able to be sustained (or not) with minimal management from the adults.

Absolutely agree with this. I distinctly remember feeling like I had a different persona around different groups of people at that age, and feeling stressed out by the idea of merging them, even if I loved both.

At this age, it shouldn't be upsetting or surprising if she doesn't want to mix her family with her friends. You need to manage your own expectations, and then hers.

Yes they shouldn't have lied but your DB probably knew you wouldn't take it well and SIL didn't know that's what he said to you.

[quote hannayeah]@SilverBirchWithout

I was just curious about why you would say she needed to back off when their interactions are down to the bare minimum anyway.

It’s not an interrogation. Lol.[/quote]
Reading the OP’s original post it doesn’t feel contact is the bare minimum to me.
All contact sounds like it is generally initiated by the OP, and brother and SIL just politely agree to meet rather than make excuses.
This time with the party the DB tried to be polite and save the OP’s feelings casually mentioning it would be better to meet up on a different day - just family. The OP pushed back suggesting her DD could be dropped off, backing DB into a white lie about the party.
There could be any number of reasons why they didn’t want the DD at the party, and prefer to keep family meet-ups separate to friendship meets. There is no point speculating without further info, I just feel personally OP sounds like she is pushing too much for the nieces to be best friends, when it is obvious DB & SIL are not that keen.
There is little point in OP falling out with DB over a white lie told to avoid hurting feelings.
I understand OP is hurt, but she would be better off backing off and developing relationships elsewhere, just because you’re related it doesn’t mean you want the same things or have the interests.

I’ve decided I’m not going to say anything, and I’m not going to invite to anything else either, even holidays, it’s now up to them. I’ve realised that they are likely coming out of feelings of obligation anyway, so that’s a sign I should redirect my energies with these things.

If they initiate, we will happily go. I have a friend keen to do Friendmas this year with her family, so I’ll make plans to do that later on in the year.

I’ve unfollowed (but stayed friends with) SIL on social media, so I won’t be hurt if this happens again, I just won’t know, but without the awkwardness of an actual unfriending which would be huge overkill anyway.

As for today, we’ve also got a toddler, I’ll be busy managing her and will just be friendly and polite, and I’ve got my niece a really lovely gift that I think she’ll love, so I’ll just focus on that.

I honestly think that there’s some problems going on in their household, I don’t know the details, obviously, but I do believe they have a facade to their friends that things are better than they are, there’s a lot of backstory, my brother has borrowed money from us several times, I don’t think SIL has always known about these times, it’s all really started going downhill in our relationship since their first loan several years ago. I do wonder if they resent us for the fact they had to borrow money from us? We tried to give it as a gift, but my brother paid me back in instalments each time. Our income is probably 10-20 times of theirs, I am sure they don’t know the discrepancy is that big at all, we don’t spend to our income at all, but I can point to the first loan as the time they started to withdraw. The first loan was when our income was less than theirs, so I think it’s a money management issue.

So... my door is open, but it’s up to them. Will still ask niece over if she’d like, I’m sure if she didn’t want to come they’d make an excuse. I do genuinely think the girls get on very well, every time it’s time to go home she has a huge tantrum and runs and hides to stay longer. This is nothing sinister, just indicates she’s enjoying herself and doesn’t want it to end!

Thanks for the helpful answers.

If this was me, I would text my brother saying that I have seen the pictures, how I feel about it, and cancel the get together untill it gets clear what their reason is.
As you say, if they want the DD to interact with her other friends or they have any issue with you or your DD, they should say so. You are adults and this is family, so must be an honest relationship. I would not ignore the blatant lying on your face.

I think if the reason is actually one of we/my wife/our kids don’t like you/husband/your kids or something, then they either won’t say it anyway or the relationship would be totally over! Because you can’t come back from that.
Also the money, I really suspect that SIL doesn’t know their own situation. She doesn’t know any of the details about anything, it was obvious during brother’s health scare a couple of years ago. She just didn’t pay any of the bills during this time. He pays for everything for the house and family and her money is their spending money, so I think brother is probably hiding that IF that is the issue.

A discrepancy in income between siblings is an awkward situation and can cause people to feel uncomfortable- sounds like this may be at the root of the issues.
My DSis avoids any events organised by my much wealthier DBro, even though he is a kind and generous person, I think she feels very embarrassed. We are somewhere in the middle of the two financially and it feels much easier for us as the disparity both ways is not so obvious.
I’m not sure what the answer is, but leaving the ball in their court sounds a sensible solution.

Wow-you went from earning less than them, to earning 10/20 times more than them-that is quite a jump.

@Howshouldibehave

Wow-you went from earning less than them, to earning 10/20 times more than them-that is quite a jump.

Yes, they wouldn’t know the extent of that though. Nobody does.

OP, I don't think you sound crazy or paranoid or needy at all. Having your brother lie to you about the party is really odd and you are right to be hurt. I would confront him about just this. Why did they lie?

Perhaps the cousin really doesn't like your daughter and that's where the distance is coming from. Again, I'd ask your brother in the context of asking why he lied and if this is the reason. I see no reason to keep quiet forever and pretend something incredibly weird and hurtful didn't just happen.

I would cancel and not be inviting brother and family to our family events in the future. If he did not want to invite me to his party, fine that is his choice, but to lie to me would make me not want to be around him. Not to invite your dd was spiteful and mean if so many other kids were invited. Make sure your dd has other friends she can hang out with. Encourage her to invite other friends around.

Id be hurt about the lying. I might even be tempted to bring it up as a personal thing between you two.

Your plan in your previous post sounds good though.

You're in touch with them every week - and you were pushing to be closer? How close? Three times a week? Every day? Move in next door?
You're lucky they've not backed off completely. I'd hate this!

Agee with your post at 9.58. That seems mature and won't damage the relationship. I totally understand how you feel. I'd feel the same too.

Family currently sitting at the pool the suggested, waiting for them to arrive...where we’ve been for 45 mins, with no message...no answered phone. We have a 2 hour booking due to Covid regulations, so it’s going to be a short catch up.

Hope they’re ok.

Oh no! You must be struggling to stay zen with all this. Hope they turn up slightly grovelly with a rock solid explanation

Have they arrived?

I hope you manage to catch up. Family relationships are difficult.

We have a similar relationship with one of my brothers. I always made an effort, would go over to their house to deliver present to niece/nephew after work on their birthday every year. I was never invited.

After a number of years I noticed a pattern of SIL family turning up at same time then the cake coming out. I began to realise that they were all invited for cake but I wasn't, I just happened to be there. It came to a head one year when my nephew kept coming to his mum asking when they were doing the cake and she kept shushing him. It was clear they were waiting for me and my children to go. That was the last time I went unannounced on the kids birthday's. I switched to money and a card after that. They never did party's a lot - as far as I know - but I did see via social media a few that ds (similar age to their ds) wasn't invited to. One year, quite last minute my brother invited ds to a lazer quest party - oh and can you drive a couple of the other guests? It was clear that they had found out that some couldn't get there so I assume, rather than pay for more children than were there (minimum of 10 usually required) they would invite DS 🙄 We were actually busy so couldn't go anyway.

@SquarePeggyLeggy

Family currently sitting at the pool the suggested, waiting for them to arrive...where we’ve been for 45 mins, with no message...no answered phone. We have a 2 hour booking due to Covid regulations, so it’s going to be a short catch up.

With this update the cynic in me wouldn't be surprised if they knew you'd see the social media posting and thought you might flounce Re today's meeting.

Hope you have a nice day regardless.

Something is obviously going on. Maybe your DB has just found out about the social media.

Did they turn up OP?