So hurt for my daughter - do I say something?

[SquarePeggyLeggy]

I am really upset and want to check it’s reasonable to say anything and if so what and when.
I don’t think my sister in law likes us all that much, but it’s always civil and not unpleasant, she just doesn’t pursue any relationship with me or closeness for the cousins really, but does always take me up on invitations. I feel kept at arms length by my brother too, but again, always comes anywhere they’re invited and stays in touch at least once a week. I tried to push a closer relationship, but it’s clear they don’t want that, so for the last several years, I just backed right off and am here if they need, rather than trying to be friends per se. The exception to this has always been my daughter and niece, they are 6 months apart. They are close and get on well, and we have my niece for sleepovers etc sometimes, they’ve got their own relationship going. We are always invited to their parties etc.
They are 8.
This year my brother told me his daughter didn’t want a party. She was going to catch up with “a couple of friends” one day, us the next, and then the grandparents the following weekend. I said: “we can drop daughter off to one of those other things, we don’t all have to come”. He insisted that she’d asked to spend the day just with us, and “didn’t want a party”. It all felt weird, and like we were being ring fenced, I don’t know but convinced myself I was paranoid.
Cue today: SIL posts a bunch of pictures on Instagram, they’ve had a full on, pony ride party with a bunch of kids, has to be 30. Its a mix of their friends kids and school friends so it’s not just a school party, and anyway, they said there was no party?
It’s allowed here, btw.
We are supposed to have our catch up tomorrow and I just feel sick to my stomach. I felt they were leaving us out and this was our consolation to make us feel better, and I was right! For some reason they need to segregate us away from their friends and family. I have no idea what’s happened, and my daughter is 8! The girls haven’t had words, nothing like that, I’m so confused!
Do I say something? I just feel crushed for my daughter who thinks they’re besties. I don’t know how to act tomorrow! I want to cancel, but it’s not my niece’s fault! What do I do?

I have a not dissimilar dynamic with my DB and SiL. My PFB is 8 months younger than their first, and 8 months older than their second. We used to live close to each other. One day I called uninvited (to drop something on behalf of our DM to my DB). My 2 DC ran into the house to play with their cousins, while I stood there in the kitchen getting mega unwelcome vibes. I left shortly thereafter (as quick as I could drag my two out).

We've really been quite at arm's length ever since. We're invited to their occasions, and they to ours. Thankfully they moved houses, so we're rarely in their area, & I don't get my 2 pleading to call to their home. The cousins play together and have a great time when they meet, but out of sight, out of mind for the most part. My children are 10 &8. Theirs are 11 & 9.

In fairness to SiLs, they don't have to like us. They married our DBs, they didn't sign up for anything with us. My DB & SiL built a palatial house in a 'good' area and have frequent parties. When we're invited, everything is so fabulous - think architect designed home, caterers, fresh flowers, Victoria Beckham outfit (writing this, I can't wait for the next one!), but it definitely makes us the dull end of the family.
I would suggest a tiny distance. Is your DD actually bothered at all (they usually aren't)? If they're not actually at the same school, & only meet when invited, are they really besties? I would say go to the lunch and enjoy it, particularly if your DD isn't bothered.

As for the party, i think it's rude they lied about the "no party" rather than not inviting you. I think if they had said "we're having a party with xyz on friday and then saturday we'll spend the day together" it would have been better received by you.

Perhaps. But going on the fact that the OP offered to just drop her daughter round at the brother’s house anyway, despite not being invited, who knows?

Is there a big income difference between your families? Are they aspiring social climbers?

This is very hurtful indeed being as it's a mix of school friends and others.
Maybe call off the visit today as you are upset and a few days will give perspective.
Not wrong to say you have seen the pics and are confused as you thought no party?

It is very hard to navigate the family v friends party issues.

Cousins are relatives not 'friends' per se. If the party was at a venue, it would be a limited numbers event and naturally, your niece would want to have her school and dancing friends first. You may believe that your DD and niece are close, but the relationship is unlikely to be the same unless they go to school together.

I can see your point re your brother lying, but he probably felt uncomfortable at having to articulate the above as you seem not to see it that way and so he chose what seemed like the easy way out.

The fact that you lack other relatives is neither here nor there really, sorry to be blunt.

Have the pre-arranged catch up and try to understand why what happened ocurred. Step back and try to let you DD foster friendships with her school friends and hobby friends.

@SummerBody1

I have a not dissimilar dynamic with my DB and SiL. My PFB is 8 months younger than their first, and 8 months older than their second. We used to live close to each other. One day I called uninvited (to drop something on behalf of our DM to my DB). My 2 DC ran into the house to play with their cousins, while I stood there in the kitchen getting mega unwelcome vibes. I left shortly thereafter (as quick as I could drag my two out).

We've really been quite at arm's length ever since. We're invited to their occasions, and they to ours. Thankfully they moved houses, so we're rarely in their area, & I don't get my 2 pleading to call to their home. The cousins play together and have a great time when they meet, but out of sight, out of mind for the most part. My children are 10 &8. Theirs are 11 & 9.

In fairness to SiLs, they don't have to like us. They married our DBs, they didn't sign up for anything with us. My DB & SiL built a palatial house in a 'good' area and have frequent parties. When we're invited, everything is so fabulous - think architect designed home, caterers, fresh flowers, Victoria Beckham outfit (writing this, I can't wait for the next one!), but it definitely makes us the dull end of the family.
I would suggest a tiny distance. Is your DD actually bothered at all (they usually aren't)? If they're not actually at the same school, & only meet when invited, are they really besties? I would say go to the lunch and enjoy it, particularly if your DD isn't bothered.

Yes I wondered was there a bit of this going on too - could be wrong of course - but the pony and dancing friends thing makes me wonder. Some people are just snooty fuckers.

I suspect that the two girls don't get on as well as you think they do. This is no reflection on either child, or you.

I'd just say "You should have said about the party. We would have understood, but it was a bit of a shock to see the pictures when you said there would be no party."

@Jeremyironseverything

I suspect that the two girls don't get on as well as you think they do. This is no reflection on either child, or you.

I'd just say "You should have said about the party. We would have understood, but it was a bit of a shock to see the pictures when you said there would be no party."

This - very straightforward and sets the stage for the future ... you will need to manage your own DDs expectations

And there’s no reason she needs to know about the party and feel like she’s missed out

I imagine party girl would bring it up, it sounds like a fabulous party for an 8 year old. So I don't think it will be hidden. I would be worried if it was in fact not mentioned. That would imply more than thoughtlessness.

FWIW I would not say anything, but I would be issuing fewer invites to anything where the adults would have to come. And leave the girls to carry on. Very soon they will be able to sort out visits by and for themselves.

And I get the hurting bit. I have had a similar thing happen and I just dont see them anymore. I'm reminded of this event every year so it still stings bit.

The other thing I'm wondering is was it SIL who did all the leg work organising the party while DB couldn't be arsed didn't get involved and therefore didn't know much about it. Therefore OP just got a "she's having a get together, there's going to be a few friends and a pony. Don't know much else" answer from him rather than a deliberate lie. Its a bit daft to lie about something that's going to appear on social media.

Maybe you could just ask your brother, Hey, it's great that you had a party and we don't automatically expect an invite to that sort of thing, but can I just check that there isn't an issue with the girls and their friendship? Just wanting to be aware in case there's something going on that affects them.

I don’t think my sister in law likes us all that much, but it’s always civil and not unpleasant, she just doesn’t pursue any relationship with me or closeness for the cousins really, but does always take me up on invitations. I feel kept at arms length by my brother too

You answered your own question OP. They’re not keen on you for whatever reason and don’t particularly want to spend their spare time with you. It’s not nice and I’ve been there myself. SIL and BIL made it quite clear they didn’t like us and didn’t want to include us in their parties etc (her family would always be invited). If we invited them to things of ours they came up with excuses.
We don’t have anything to do with them any more. No one on DH’s side of the family really likes SIL that much (I have come to realise).
The problem is theirs, you can’t force a relationship - let it go and you’ll be much happier without that toxicity in your life.

How unkind and badly handled. I’d send a message saying someone is unwell last minute and then lower contact.

I'm usually very 'its none of your business who people have at their parties' but actually I think this is really shit. Especially the fact that she posted the photos knowing that you would see them.

Is it not possible that your niece (or brother) just decided that they didn’t want your DD there as she would only know her cousin and make it harder for her cousin to play with her friends? They didn’t say they wouldn’t come and see you and they accept all of your invitations. They didn’t invite any other family kids to this party so I don’t see the problem? It’s not like they left her out? This kind of stuff happens as kids get older.

You can’t wrap your daughter in cotton wool and protect her from every disappointment. Especially when it comes to relationships. What you can do is focus your energy on planning what to say to your daughter if she gets upset. Everything else is out of your control.

@SquarePeggyLeggy

A further element to this - there is no other extended family on my side. At all. So... to never invite them again would mean no relatives at anything. We dont have grandparents or other cousins. My husband's siblings are all over the world. This is a huge factor in why I invite when I do. I think I would have stopped otherwise.

So, just to try and understand. The grandparents that the niece was going to see are not your parents but your Sister-in-law's parents. Your niece's grandparents on her mother's side of the family ?They are nothing to do with your family but you thought it appropriate to suggest that dropping your daughter of to that gathering as an alternative?

Your niece would be spending time with her grandparents for part of her birthday celebrations and you honestly thought that dropping your daughter to that occasion would be perfectly normal?

To be honest if this is the kind of mind set that you have I am not surprised that your brother and his wife are trying to pull back a bit.

Your lack of extended family is not really your brother or Sister-in-law's problem.

The chances are your niece did not want your daughter at her party and your brother lied as he did ot want to get into a conversation with you about it.
The girls perhaps don't get along as well as you think they do. Your niece may be wanting to spend more time with her friends rather than being made to invite her cousin to everything.

You say you have contact with them every week. That’s not an arms length relationship.
We speak to my brother and children, perhaps 3 times a year and see them once a year.

You are overly involved and invested here. It was fine to have a bigger party for one group of friends and not invite your DD. There is a famiky event for her and all of you. You were a bit pushy to try to push into the other events - your DD does not need to attend every event the other vpfamiky have.

I can see the fact your brother wasn’t honest with you hurts. That’s the issue really. But perhaps you are too needy and pushy and they just want a bit of space and that why they did it.

The best thing to do tomorrow would be to either say nothing or to lightly mention seeing the party and how fun it looked..... it only if you can do this without a sound of reproach in your voice or criticism. Given your brother wasn’t truthful about this event, this might be tricky.

You need to move in from this lack of honesty and you need to think about how to have this relationship without being in their pockets or pushing for more contact. Back off and let them decide. Dont judge the quality of the relationship by the frequency of contact.

I have a very similar situation in that I’m not close to my SIL (would be with my brother if he wasn’t married to her) but our kids are extremely close to their cousins. My two kids and their eldest are as thick as thieves.

When the kids were younger my SIL tried to micromanage the relationship and often excluded my DD from invitations as she wanted to choose my niece’s friends to make sure they were the daughters of her good friends. It was upsetting at first but eventually I decided just to carry on doing what I wanted to do, regardless of her actions. We take her on holidays with us which is never reciprocated. We invite her to parties and to sleep over regularly. They always have a great time when they are together and it’s a lovely cousin relationship. They’re all teenagers now and they take more initiative themselves to see each other so my SIL has less influence.

I’d focus on ensuring your DD isn’t upset at being excluded. If she’s unaware then don’t say anything, just leave it. It’ll improve as they get older.

I hate lies, people can do what they want but if they lie to me at least don't let me know as that is insulting in my book. If I was you I'd just say, "I see you decided to have a party." So let them know you know but don't make an issue of it. I wouldn't do it when the kids were around though.

I think you’re dwelling and shouldn’t.

I understand you are hurt on your DDs behalf that she wasn’t invited to the party. But she has a separate birthday catch-up with her cousin, and you can make that really enjoyable.

He insisted that she’d asked to spend the day just with us, and “didn’t want a party”.

There are two things here: 1) that your brother insisted his DD “didn’t want a party” and subsequently had one 2) that DN “asked to spend the day just with us”

You don’t know why the party plans changed, but you can be reassured that she wanted to hang out with your DD.

You could mention to your DB and SIL when you see them “Oh - saw DN changed her mind about not wanting a party, it looked like she had fun” and try not to imbue that with any hurt feelings at all, just a statement of fact. See what they say.

But really just concentrate on keeping the cousin relationship going despite these invites/lack of invites. Things change as they get older, just try to keep it alive in its own terms, not conditional on reciprocal invites.

I wouldn’t be making a thing of it or mentioning it to DD...,what would that achieve? But it sounds like you probably have already.

The best thing would be if you can come to a point in your own mind about backing off a bit and not feeling hurt about not seeing each other all the time. That’s a step for you to take in terms of realising and accepting you aren’t going to have as regular contact as you’d like. However, you should also recognise it’s far more than most people have.

Regarding this party, if you can come to terms with it, it might be good to have a brief word with brother when no-one else is around. Only do this if you can do it without reproach or any suggestion of criticism. You can tell him you spotted the party photos and have come to understand your DD isn’t a school friend and might not be involved in everything and that he should feel free to be honest without worry of how you’ll react. Be smiley and light hearted and not suggesting he’s done something wrong or should have included DD.

The trouble is, you won’t be able to say this, because you don’t feel it.

A whole mindset change is needed from you...and that won’t have happened by the end of the weekend.

Creating tension by backing out from tomorrow’s event won’t help. Feeling peeved won’t help. You have to work this through in your own mind and come to terms with the reality and that it’s actually fine for them not to want to be with you or your DD all the time. You HAVE to accept this and respect it as their choice or you will seriously damage the relationship and there will be far less of one than you have now. What you have now is pretty good in my view and it’s just that you want too much.

I would message him, enclose photos of party and tell them to go f*ck them selves. Delete block and take your kid out for aspecial treat on her own .

I'm just triple checked it's not 2018

@Chickychickydodah

I would message him, enclose photos of party and tell them to go f*ck them selves. Delete block and take your kid out for aspecial treat on her own .

OP isn't looking quite so intense anymore! 😬