So hurt for my daughter - do I say something?

[SquarePeggyLeggy]

I am really upset and want to check it’s reasonable to say anything and if so what and when.
I don’t think my sister in law likes us all that much, but it’s always civil and not unpleasant, she just doesn’t pursue any relationship with me or closeness for the cousins really, but does always take me up on invitations. I feel kept at arms length by my brother too, but again, always comes anywhere they’re invited and stays in touch at least once a week. I tried to push a closer relationship, but it’s clear they don’t want that, so for the last several years, I just backed right off and am here if they need, rather than trying to be friends per se. The exception to this has always been my daughter and niece, they are 6 months apart. They are close and get on well, and we have my niece for sleepovers etc sometimes, they’ve got their own relationship going. We are always invited to their parties etc.
They are 8.
This year my brother told me his daughter didn’t want a party. She was going to catch up with “a couple of friends” one day, us the next, and then the grandparents the following weekend. I said: “we can drop daughter off to one of those other things, we don’t all have to come”. He insisted that she’d asked to spend the day just with us, and “didn’t want a party”. It all felt weird, and like we were being ring fenced, I don’t know but convinced myself I was paranoid.
Cue today: SIL posts a bunch of pictures on Instagram, they’ve had a full on, pony ride party with a bunch of kids, has to be 30. Its a mix of their friends kids and school friends so it’s not just a school party, and anyway, they said there was no party?
It’s allowed here, btw.
We are supposed to have our catch up tomorrow and I just feel sick to my stomach. I felt they were leaving us out and this was our consolation to make us feel better, and I was right! For some reason they need to segregate us away from their friends and family. I have no idea what’s happened, and my daughter is 8! The girls haven’t had words, nothing like that, I’m so confused!
Do I say something? I just feel crushed for my daughter who thinks they’re besties. I don’t know how to act tomorrow! I want to cancel, but it’s not my niece’s fault! What do I do?

@SquarePeggyLeggy haven't they invited you all to a separate get together though? It's not like you've been excluded as a family- it is just your daughter wasn't invited to one thing.

I would just text your DB to say I'm canceling our "catch-up". I'd also say that you and your DD have both seen the photos and that has really hurt DD.

I wouldn’t do either. They don’t have to invite family to a birthday party-I never have! There are plans for the two girls to meet separately-that is perfectly fine.

Cancelling the meeting will upset your daughter. Telling her about the party will upset your daughter. Why would you deliberately do that to your own child?

Isn’t the only issue that your brother is a lousy communicator? And also that you assumed an invitation he wasn’t offering?

It’s pretty hard for him to say “we’re having a party and you’re not invited.”

When you jumped in with dropping your DD off, it’s quite natural to play it down, “not really a party, a gathering of some school friends, and we’ll have the whole day with you the next day...”

Yes you need to tell them how you feel.

I'd be upset in your position too OP. I fully think you should go with the flow or put up with it or whatever it you're upset. Why should you minimise your own feelings? I don't think you're wrong to want to be close to your brother.

You do have to think tactically though I'm afraid otherwise there's a chance they'll just cast you off. I think saying "I felt like a crazy person you're managing when you said there was no party and then posted pics on Instagram! I'm a big girl, why didn't you just tell me it was for school friends?!' is fine but crying because you weren't invited won't get you very far.

I'm sorry you're feeling kept at arm's length. I suspect at some point you'll find out there's more to their home life than meets the eye (because of the messy house thing).

If they’d told you there was a party but it was just for school friends, would you have genuinely been ok?

Or would you have looked at the photos and seen dancing friends and SIL family there and still been upset and thought you should have been invited?

@FallingStar21

OP, I really feel for you. I dont think you have been pushy and all these posters who call you "intense" I guarantee would have felt awful for themselves and their children, had they been in your shoes. This is your family, not just some random school parents or neighbours doing this. It is so ugly and hurtful.

To make a few points here:

• If DB and SIL felt that you are pushy (as PP have suggested), then why are they in touch every week and accepting ALL your invitations?
• I dont buy this whole "different groups" or "your DD wouldn't know anyone there". We are talking 30 kids and a pony party - too many people and big activity to focus on, it wouldn't have "strenghtened" or "lessened" any relationships at all. And the girls are only 8 afterall, dont see how mixing groups is such a problem at that age.
• You've always invited each other's DDs at birthday parties and suddenly they are excluding your DD for no reason, no less from something that any child would have really enjoyed.

Still, if they had given an excuse would have been different, but they did not. The the lying is too hurtful to ignore.

I would just text your DB to say I'm canceling our "catch-up". I'd also say that you and your DD have both seen the photos and that has really hurt DD.

Let him feel the guilt and embarrassment as he struggles to make up explanations, he certainly deserves it.

You can of course try to brush it off and never bring it up, but as it has affected you deeply it is better to tell him so at least you know there's no pretence. What he did was not okay.

And definitely encourage your DD in fostering other friendships which would be better for her.

But you've just argued that OP isn't intense by saying a load of equally intense things.

The "different groups" thing is something many children feel and could have come from the child herself. "That's not a good enough excuse" is a very intense attitude to take.

The attitude that because they have always invited her before, it is "really hurtful" for them to ever exclude her, is a really intense way to be, and means they can never get out of having her there. Can you not see how that would feel stifling?

I agree that they shouldn't have lied (though I suspect what happened is DB thought he was being clever by downplaying the party rather than saying nothing was happening), but I'm sorry to say this DOES all sound very intense, and if the response OP gives is a dramatic telling off about how extremely hurt her daughter is not to be included, then she is proving that point. No wonder they feel like they can't just not invite her if their DD doesn't want to.

[quote NerrSnerr]@SquarePeggyLeggy haven't they invited you all to a separate get together though? It's not like you've been excluded as a family- it is just your daughter wasn't invited to one thing. [/quote]
There's a big difference between being invited to see your cousin at her house and going to a pony party, which I'm sure most 8year olds would be thrilled at.

They have chosen to have three events: grandparents, your family, and a party with everyone else. That’s not excluding you. Yes it means your DD doesn’t go to a party which she might have enjoyed, but she still sees her cousin. And there’s no reason she needs to know about the party and feel like she’s missed out.

So really what you are upset about is your DD missing out on a party rather than being excluded.

I can understand why you’re hurt by the lying. Saying there’s no party when there is. But it sounds like if he’d told you there was a party but your DD wasn’t invited you would not have accepted that but would have been even more hurt and possibly would have tried to push him into inviting her? Saying you could drop her off etc? So I can kind of see why he would have tried to hide it.

My dd and her cousin (now 15&16) are very close, always have been. If they're together, everyone else gets ignored. They were never invited to each other's parties because of this, it would be alienating for their school friends and would actually have a detrimental effect on their other friendships.

I think you're expecting too much. It's OK for niece to have a party just with mates. If DD went niece would probably feel obliged to stick with her.

Not many grown up siblings spend that much time together. I don't hear from my brother from one week to the next.

I think it's OK for them to have family and friend events separate.

Do you have many friendships outside of family? Maybe you need to start branching out (like they have).

I think if you found this hurtful you just need to have it out with your DB. Tell him why did he lie - that if he didn’t want your DD at the party he could have just said so. You two are each other’s only family. You need to be honest with each other.

On the whole, people don't tell the truth if they can't face the anger/endless questions/hurt feelings that come with it.

Which makes me wonder, OP, whether your brother thought any of these responses was a possibility? If so, I can see why he didn't tell the truth - your OP is very heavy and intense, and I think you have perhaps invested rather too much in a friendship between two children. Offering to drop your daughter off at a party to which she hasn't been invited would be a red flag for me.

Before long, the girls will be able to make their own arrangements, and will be able to see one another as often or as little as they like.

@kunterbunting

On the whole, people don't tell the truth if they can't face the anger/endless questions/hurt feelings that come with it.

Which makes me wonder, OP, whether your brother thought any of these responses was a possibility? If so, I can see why he didn't tell the truth - your OP is very heavy and intense, and I think you have perhaps invested rather too much in a friendship between two children. Offering to drop your daughter off at a party to which she hasn't been invited would be a red flag for me.

Before long, the girls will be able to make their own arrangements, and will be able to see one another as often or as little as they like.

OP and her kids are her brother’s only family. All of her sil’s family were there but the only ones excluded were OP and DN.

That suggests OP has a point.

Haven't rtft and I'm sorry you feel hurt op, but I don't think you should say anything. It's up to them who they invite.

This only happened for one or two years running but at the height of the age when my DD was having birthday parties, we had a party for her school friends, a separate family party, and another gathering for friends from the rather niche activity she was involved in at the time all to celebrate one birthday. And that was mainly because of party size and the fact that we didn't want one young family member to feel left out among a bunch of DC who knew one another from another area of life. We had tried mixing everyone previously and it didn't really work.

So they may have their reasons and it's their prerogative anyway. And it's not as if they excluded you completely, you were invited to see them on another occasion.

In the nicest possible way, your brother was probably vague and lied because you were pushing too much and didn't pick up on his previous hints.

The far kinder thing would have been to explain the situation to you straight up and say "for various reasons we are having a separate class party this year but we look forward to seeing you at the family event. ".

Also, for most people, I think seeing bils and sils once a week is more than adequate; or you start to live in one another's pockets otherwise.

Maybe to an 8 year old, but actually in terms of manners it's perfectly reasonable and parents need to be able to manage their children's feelings about missing parties. She isn't part of her cousin's friendship group.

Grumpy, that was kind of my point. If my DC and I were excluded from something, I would be wondering if I was perhaps the reason why. I would be re-reading what I've written here, for starters, and wondering if I am perhaps a bit intense and over-invested. I would also think I should perhaps look outside of the family for friendships - for myself as well as for my daughter.

I think it could be awkward if your DD doesn't know any of the school friends. I'd stop making so much effort with them if they seem disinterested. In touch weekly is probably a lot more than most.

Maybe they don’t get on as well as you think OP. My cousin on my DMs side is three months older than me, and we were always forced to have a relationship/friendship by our parents. Play dates, sleepovers, if one of us was having a birthday party we had to invite other etc.

The thing is we had absolutely nothing in common. She was a very girly girl type who loved her barbies and frilly dresses and I was massive tomboy who lived in trousers, hated dolls and always played with toy cars, rode my bike, climbed trees etc. We were polar opposites and would never have been friends otherwise, but a relationship was forced on us. She was also very spoiled and bratty, which I’m most definitely not and would cry over the most ridiculous things. She’d try and dominate pick on me because she was so used to getting getting her own way at home. She wasn’t a very nice little girl in all honesty. Although we get on fine as adults, we will never be close friends.

Obviously I’m not saying your DD is like that but I thought I’d give some perspective, just because they are cousins and the same age doesn’t mean they will be best friends.

You have to accept the fact that DD is not your niece's friend as such but her cousin. They had a group of people who presumably all knew each other and adding another that the whole group does not know can change the dynamic, with perhaps your DD wanting to be in niece's group etc because she knows someone else. It is normal at about this age for this to happen.

Be happy that they are still doing a family event/tea too and they do want you all there for that. Under no circumstances should you make a fuss that DD was not invited otherwise you may find contact is cut altogether. They really are just doing the normal thing.

@FallingStar21

OP, I really feel for you. I dont think you have been pushy and all these posters who call you "intense" I guarantee would have felt awful for themselves and their children, had they been in your shoes. This is your family, not just some random school parents or neighbours doing this. It is so ugly and hurtful.

To make a few points here:

• If DB and SIL felt that you are pushy (as PP have suggested), then why are they in touch every week and accepting ALL your invitations?
• I dont buy this whole "different groups" or "your DD wouldn't know anyone there". We are talking 30 kids and a pony party - too many people and big activity to focus on, it wouldn't have "strenghtened" or "lessened" any relationships at all. And the girls are only 8 afterall, dont see how mixing groups is such a problem at that age.
• You've always invited each other's DDs at birthday parties and suddenly they are excluding your DD for no reason, no less from something that any child would have really enjoyed.

Still, if they had given an excuse would have been different, but they did not. The the lying is too hurtful to ignore.

I would just text your DB to say I'm canceling our "catch-up". I'd also say that you and your DD have both seen the photos and that has really hurt DD.

Let him feel the guilt and embarrassment as he struggles to make up explanations, he certainly deserves it.

You can of course try to brush it off and never bring it up, but as it has affected you deeply it is better to tell him so at least you know there's no pretence. What he did was not okay.

And definitely encourage your DD in fostering other friendships which would be better for her.

This has to be the most bonkers advice I have seen for a while on MN.

Your brother should neither be made to feel guilty or embarassed by your DD not having been invited to a party for his daughter's friends. If you really want to fall out massively with your brother and SIL follow this nonsense. Otherwise behave in a normal way and accept that you and DD will be in family catchups from now on.

@CharlieBoo

People saying you sound intense and too involved, I don’t agree. This is your brothers family, not a school mum.. I’d feel hurt too, mainly because they’ve lied to you.

I think if I were you, I’d continue with the meet up tomorrow and ask them if their dd enjoyed her party. Be nice, kind, etc. Then I’d step away. The girls can still be friends, FaceTime and the odd meet up/sleepover etc, but don’t chase people who are like this. Don’t waste your headspace on it. Sometimes people are just like this..

This is the best most reasonable approach OP. Always follow your instincts, you don’t sound like a nut job at all. I have 3 step sisters from a late in life remarriage from my mum and 2 of them have deleted me on fb despite only pleasant interactions. Family can be weird, but it’s absolutely not worth losing your dignity or stressing over. Have a pleasant day with them and then move on, keep in contact with brother as is and let DD have her relationship with cousin if it continues as they grow older, but don’t worry about SIL not liking you - could be sooooo many reasons, none your fault, and not worth the effort.

It sounds like you already have lots of contact with them. I am in touch with my friends once a week and i consider them close friends. Would you like contact every day? That would be way too much for me. Maybe it's a personality thing rather than them to liking you.

As for the party, i think it's rude they lied about the "no party" rather than not inviting you. I think if they had said "we're having a party with xyz on friday and then saturday we'll spend the day together" it would have been better received by you.

This was hurtful, OP. They can’t imagine that the DDs won’t talk about the party, so you’re sure to find out. I suppose you could say you hope they enjoyed the party, and not make a big deal of it.

This is way too intense, with really important decisions such as schooling being affected.

You do need to take a step back, Op. It's not nice that you were lied to, but I think that they might just not have wanted the hassle of having to explain themselves to you.