Harry and Meghan are expecting their second child

[Standrewsschool]

Wishing them all the best

I don’t really understand the endless sympathy and need to defend these two people from harmless gossip on a mums chat thread
Harmless?? the countless threads ripping M apart from the way she touchs her bump to how she dresses her child.
the made up stuff, the obsessive hate.
the weird stalking of posters that don't join in.
its anything but harmless.

@stairway

It is mainly harmless gossip Roussette, there is nothing wrong with discussing and analysing what the rich and powerful get up to. Most of the name calling has been done by the Meghan supporters who don’t like the couple being criticised. We live in a free country , we can discuss the rich and powerful. They have a lot of influence over things, it’s ok to pick holes in it. If they don’t want to influence/ be criticised they can live a relatively quiet life like Princess Anne.

please.... the reason you don't see the not supporters PA posts is because the threads were deleted, or on another forum.

Is interesting as they seem to attract such extreme hate (where there are twitter accounts set up just to attack their every move) and such extreme adoration (where again you see twitter accounts set up to hero worship them to an equally disturbing level).

The haters voraciously attack everything they do - and analyse the most benign acts to extreme lengths. The hero worshipers won't hear of a single criticism - and go to the lengths of attacking other members of the Royal family by way of comparison.

Apart from Trump, I can't think of any other public figures who have such a polarising effect.

For my part, I am critical of some of what they do and how they go about things but can also see positives - especially with Harry's work with military veterans etc.

Interesting Pretend but I think we have to bear in mind, there is a middle camp.
Pretty indifferent but who really hates the bullying of them. And yes I am one who will compare and contrast with other members of the RF because that is where the unfairness comes in, primarily PA. I don't attack them. I quote examples of where H&M are mercilessly maligned for something that other RF members do or have done with no comment.

I think they are ridiculous at times, I think they've done some stupid things, but they don't deserve the amount of awful criticism they get.

@stairway Despite Caroline Flack, you still think it's just 'harmless gossip'. Why don't you tell that to Caroline's family? Or to Charlotte Dawson's family? I get the feeling you felt teasing and bullying at school was just 'harmless fun'. Despite the number of times Caroline Flack in particular has been mentioned on this thread, you still don't get it. It clearly, is not 'harmless gossip'. How many times do we have to say it? Before you understand it can have dire consequences?

The only other celebrity getting such extreme hate, in recent memory, was Angelina Jolie, especially after she got with Brad Pitt - death threats to her, people (mostly Jennifer Aniston fans) hoping she is raped, her children were raped (yes, it was said), she'd die in a plane crash/giving birth, you name it, it was said about her. And those of us defending Angelina were called 'loons', 'stans', angeloonies' etc. Many of us were not even big fans of her really, but her haters could...not....STAND it that anyone dared defend her. If you didn't hate her you were a loon. The irony was those who called others loons, were the real loons. You were mocked if you didn't join in hating her. It's the same with Meghan.

They have no influence over you whatsoever, they are just living their lives

See, I don’t think this is true AT ALL. If H&M - or any other celebrity or member of the RF - didn’t have any influence over members of the public, they’d cease to exist (not as humans obvs, but as celebrities and the RF).

Their whole raison d’être is to influence. And the whole point of influencing is for personal gain.

For celebrities, there is a whole industry worth billions of $ that thrives off people who want, or don’t mind, or - most insidiously - don’t realise that they are feeding the beast. For the British RF, the industry has become institutionalized over centuries.

Members of the public who want to avoid lining others’ pockets simply stop feeding the beast. They don’t click on articles; they don’t attend events; they don’t pay to watch movies.

But, too many - or rather, enough - people want and/or need the escapism or whatever it is that they get from following celebrities or revering the RF. And, celebrities/the RF know it. This is what they’re about, this is how they survive.

And this is what’s objectionable. The public-celebrity/RF relationship is not democratic or balanced. It’s tipped incredibly heavily away from the public until something happens and it tips the other way (fame is nothing if not fickle). So, the whole “call me Harry” thing (for example) is completely disingenuous. It’s as much of a charade as the RF, or the chimera of fame, itself. (Yes I know he didn’t ask to be born into the RF - what does that change? I didn’t ask to be born a woman but I was - that’s life.)

The most successful and, I would venture, grounded people who have benefitted from the public tend to be the ones who acknowledge this. Nobody thinks Charles or William is the son of God as Kings once were. The myth is crumbling and support for republicanism is growing, and they know it, hence all the talk of slimming down the monarchy.

Equally, nobody truly thinks that Meghan, Harry, Angelina Jolie or whoever are better people than us who do what they do purely for the advancement of humankind, and that their extreme and visible wealth is a by-product or (worse) earned?

Do they?

well they have no influence over me.

Great!

As what about the people without the ability to discern? I mean, if people choose to let themselves be/not be influenced, that’s fine. But what about those who don’t?

Like, for example, young people. Vulnerable people. People who have been through difficulties that leave them susceptible or ripe for influencing from a softly spoken couple who proclaim they speak from experience. Bored people who don’t understand or care about algorithms.

Is it ok for them to be influenced without them knowing it?

For every person that stands up to H&M (mainly MM) being bullied, I want to stand up for those vulnerable people who don’t even know that H&M are exploiting for personal gain...and exploiting those very vulnerabilities! It’s two sides of the same coin. Before anyone says anything, I’m NOT including the hateful racism, pointless and ridiculous predictions about what’s going on in MM’s womb or between his legs . I’m talking about the utter hypocrisy of two people preaching about giving back, about protecting the vulnerable, about safe spaces to speak, about empowering, about being linked not ranked etc when they’re both making money speaking about these things off of the very people they proclaim to serve by being the exact opposite themselves.

You break a leg, you go to the doctor, she fixes you, you pay the doctor for her services.

With H&M, you hear what it’s like to have a leg broken, how terrible it is, how there’s a community of people out there just like you and that you’re not alone, that you have a voice and should use it, when all the while they’re carried around in a palanquin, and are making money out of having you hear them say these things to you. They may give 10% of that money away to a charity, but the other 90% they use to buy a mansion in Montecito etc.

H&M are just an example of the point I’m making. Their model isn’t radically different from the RF’s, and the difference with the Obamas (for example) is that one might get one’s money’s worth from them. It’s all the same though. It’s not about service, because if it were they’d do it for free.

Blooming heck you ake it sound like a cult.

@ARoseDowntown that's a very accurate description of them.

Well, congratulations to them both. Maybe they’ve announced it so late due to the grief she got when she was pregnant with Archie. No pregnant woman should be put under that much pressure during her pregnancy

@Samcro

Blooming heck you ake it sound like a cult.

Celebrity following often is cult-like.

For every time that someone says “but you don’t know her, how can you possibly criticise her like this!” there is someone saying how wonderful MM [or other celebrity] is, to which a reasonable reply would be “but you don’t know her, how can you possibly vaunt her like this!”.

It’s blind devotion.

Like, for example, young people. Vulnerable people. People who have been through difficulties that leave them susceptible or ripe for influencing from a softly spoken couple who proclaim they speak from experience

I read your posts Rose. I do think there is not much wrong with a softly spoken couple compared to far far worse out there with some influencers and celebs. This softly spoken couple might not say the right thing all the time, but they want to help in some way.. Unlike the celeb who is pushing products, pushing looks, pushing botox, pushing an unreachable lifestyle to their followers. They subtly persuade others to act on and to buy based on their recommendations all for money.
What they can do is affect self esteem, create anxiety, money problems.... pressure for the unattainable looks and clothes and body..

That, to me, is far worse than what H&M do, I am not sure how they are exploiting the vulnerable compared to the slebs and influencers.

For every time that someone says “but you don’t know her, how can you possibly criticise her like this!” there is someone saying how wonderful MM [or other celebrity] is, to which a reasonable reply would be “but you don’t know her, how can you possibly vaunt her like this!”

I am not sure how many times posters on here have to say... it's not saying she is wonderful. There is not one post on here saying that.
It is all about the constant and nasty bullying of this couple. End of.

The Kardashians did , right?

The Kardashians got so much hate at some point

I don’t really understand the endless sympathy and need to defend these two people from harmless gossip on a mums chat thread

I read all the deleted M&H threads and saw the absolute hatred, bullying and god awful "harmless gossip" that was said. I won't repeat what was said, but believe me when I say it was horrific.

I then saw Rousette, Samcro and others pop thier heads up and try and stop the vile comments.
Then the bullying, hatred, dozing, trolling turned on Samcro, Rousette and others.

To my shame, I didnt defend them. I really regret it now. I saw the bullying and I didnt do anything.

Don't know about anyone else, but im determined to stop being a passive bystander and will defend anyone who is getting bullied or on the end of "harmless gossip"

This is why I defend Meghan or Sally from the office.

minou123 Thank you.

I do find the idea that someone is standing up for vulnerable people by joining in the online hate of a pregnant woman.

I just think a lot of it is just virtual signalling, they don’t even read this, There is far more bullying of people who actually are on this thread and other mumsnet threads , people who are actually reading unkind things. I see nothing wrong with analysing and being critical about those in the public eye. I don’t see it as bullying. The problem with the royal family is they are un elected. They can’t be voted out. Talking about them is all we have.

I also don’t think celebrity gossip is the same as gossiping about a work colleague for example. Many celebrities base their career on attracting attention. Certainly it looks like like that is what Meghan and Harry are hoping to achieve. It is not possible for it all to be positive, people will have different opinions. I don’t agree with the really unkind comments, but I think it comes with the territory with maximum exposure and obscene riches.

Racism, bullying, sexism is so rife because too many women underpin it. It's always been that way generally

@ARoseDowntown
Your argument completely fell apart when you plucked 90% out of thin air. Where did you get this number? From LadyC ?

I suggest you look at a video made by the Head of WaterCharity, where he simplifies the charity's business strategy. How every penny from the donor goes directly to the affected, and how they sustain the charity workers. He also explains how he used his connections from being a raving, alcoholic, drug addicted clubber to even get the charity off the ground. Perhaps, with an open mind, you will see that there are many ways ppl can give back without taking 90% off, and that will not be your default go to. Frankly, I think assuming this about all the ppl who work hard to make a change is disgustingly insulting to the many who are not in charity for monetary gain - and believe it or not, there are plenty of ppl who are in it because they care.

I don’t agree with the really unkind comments, but I think it comes with the territory with maximum exposure and obscene riches.

This is where you and I differ.
Unkind comments (and I'm referring to bullying, racist, sexist, violent statements) towards anyone is wrong. No matter thier celebrity status or financial status.

Can I also state again, I'm not saying anything positive about M&H. I'm not a "fan girl" and don't spend my life promoting how brilliant they are.
I'm neither positive nor negative.

There is far more bullying of people who actually are on this thread and other mumsnet threads , people who are actually reading unkind things

I'm aware. I just said in my previous post, I saw horrendous bullying and to my shame I didn't say anything. I feel really shitty about that.
I hope we all challenge when we see it.