Harry and Meghan are expecting their second child

[Standrewsschool]

Wishing them all the best

I think she was determined ti change the Royal Family right from the start. She didn't like the rigid rules and wanted to change them. That is what antagonised many people. She publicly flouted them.
I also think Harry wanted to impress her and show her how important he was. I think he wanted her to be shown the same entitlement that he was used to.

It's the same as if somebody moved into your house and wanted to change the house rules. It would always cause trouble. Nothing to do with racism.

only because of their position. Neither are interesting enough without their positions to warrant any type of Netflix deal.

I was addressing somebody describing her as a 'fading actress'. If that's not misogyny then what is? Especially if she's just signed a massive deal so clearly the opposite of fading. Maybe the poster (don't know if it was you and can't be arsed to scroll back) was referring to her looks.

@Roussette I totally agree with your last sentence. She's no more or less annoying than your average celebrity but there's no particularly interesting about her either. I kind of put her in the same category as Gwyneth Paltrow.
H, on the other hand, is coming across as an entitled brat. I don't know how he seriously expects to hold on to his military titles. He didn't earn them because of his military service. He was given them because he was a member of the royal family. You can't be a Netflix producer and also head of a regiment, particularly when you live thousands of miles away. Lots of men and women served far longer in the armed services and achieved more than he did so in my eyes there are more deserving people for these titles. I know he cut his career short in order to focus on his royal duties and I think that was a massive mistake. You can't turn back the clock unfortunately.

Nothing to do with racism.

I don't think the conflicts between what Meghan and Harry wanted and the traditions and conventions of the RF were a result of racism within the RF. By all accounts, she was warmly welcomed especially by Charles. But I do think that she and Harry were upset that members of the RF or the RF PR machinery didn't publicly call out some of the attacks in the tabloid media, especially ones that were undeniably racist.

It’s an important job to stand up to bullies and racism. Goes without saying. But when you do so in a manner that is blind to the flaws of your chosen flag-bearer, you risk your valid points being (quite correctly) lost to the counter-arguments. YOU end up becoming the focus, leaving YOU feeling the subject of bullying and/or racism

Why use a hundred words when three will do? Just say you're racist and go.

@AKissAndASmile

Are you accusing me of being racist?

Telling me that standing up against racism risks me having racism directed towards me comes across as very racist, yes.

I can’t forget Harry’s trophy hunting and polo pony abuse. To then have that same person who held up a murdered animal’s head as if it was something to be proud of preach about conservation and kindness, it’s absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention his racist slurs against colleagues.

I might have some respect for him if he turned up and said yes I messed up in the past but I’ve learned from it. But let’s call it for what it is, he’s trying to profit from whatever buzz cause he can. I have zero respect for him but then I’m not particularly fond of the royal family in general.

I wish them all the best with their baby. I just wonder if Harry's life has gone according to plan? I'm not a stuffy person or a royalist, but I realise it must be hard to be surplus as a heir to the throne. It just all seems such a crazy rebellion.

@AKissAndASmile

Telling me that standing up against racism risks me having racism directed towards me comes across as very racist, yes.

How so?

Are you assuming I’m white, and that I’m threatening you?

Racism and misandry. The slyness and denial of it is nothing new. No doubt women who distastefully tear to pieces an expectant mother who's already had a miscarriage, wishing I'll against her via hearsay, a biased right-wing press, & a 'but I just don't LIKE her' embedded racism, will hop on another thread to moan about sexism from men, men who want to be women etc without even a shrewd of irony in respect of hating 'difference'.

My 'ism' is better than yours style.

If MM was a White English Rose the bitterness wouldn't be so deep.

Apart from the odiously obsessive Piers Morgan, the consensus is that White Women are the most vitriolic against MM - who is clearly not a White Woman so not part of 'The Club'.

The echo chamber (mostly but thankfully not everybody so there is sense amongst the nonsense) that is MN when it comes to Meghan Markle would seem to bear this out.

This guy on the other hand, now that’s a duke I could get on board with

AKiss she only HAS the massive deal now because of her royal connections though, anyone could have secured the same in that position so not really a reflection on ability/talent

People who deny facts, or manipulate them to suit their purpose when they’re so demonstrably wrong, are a problem - as are the people who believe them. They’re a modern scourge.

Exactly.

The threads on here in the run up to the wedding and immediately after the wedding were some of the most insanely abusive and vitriolic, just full of lies and the most overt racism and racial abuse I've ever seen on MN. It was just seething hate, and Meghan had done absolutely nothing then.

To give just one example, some posters keep pushing this lie that Meghan didn't have any friends or anyone she'd known pre-fame at the wedding, as a way to prove that she was a using gold digger. Someone posted a list of all the old (college-era) friends who'd been at the wedding, including a photo of Meghan's best friend since college sitting next to Doria. The haters just ignored it and kept repeating the lie over and over again.

It's sheer Trumpism: lie lie lie and if someone exposes you, just deny it. If you keep shouting that the sky is green over and over again people will believe it.

And there's an undeniable link with racism. The posters who seethe with hatred the most are ones with pre-existing reputations for being racially abusive on non-Meghan threads, and there's a clear double standard in how posters who don't despise Meghan are treated depending on whether they reveal that they're non-white or not. Even posters who dislike Meghan have been harassed and stalked and had the N word thrown at them, simply for saying "I dislike Meghan she's awful but please stop using racist terms about her."

These people are actively dangerous and all the tactics they use to lie, dissemble, gaslight and pretend it's just innocent "criticism" didn't work for Trump, they're not going to work now.

In the news today - they are set to lose their patronages given risk of the charities getting caught up in the middle when they are firmly established in the US celebrity circuit. Would be a wise decision I guess. Oh well imagine the potential freebie trips and free media coverage that go with it too. Less reasons to come back to the UK on a boondoggle. Good for the environment too, remember the private jet fiasco! 😂😂

Coronateachingagain They will have to retain a lot of interest in themselves in order to fulfill their billion dollar Netflix contract. Hopefully the Oprah Winfrey interview will help and the new baby . It was very sensible of the Queen to sever the patronage’s before they start cranking up the media interest/exposure though.

Ditto, pretending that "Haters" and "Fans" are equally bad is an abusive tactic. You are simply not comparing like for like.

The only people who have engaged in hate speech and racial abuse (including literally flat out posting the word "N*GGER" in all caps) are haters.

The only people who have engaged in sockpuppeting (i.e. posting "Meghan's awful because..." then immediately name-changing, replying to themselves to say "yes I agree and she also did this" then name-changing again - essentially pretending to be three or four separate people within one thread) have been haters. Not one single fan has ever been caught sockpuppeting, and the haters are so vigilant about reporting fan posts so any fan sockpuppeting would be caught.

The only people who have created new email accounts in order to register a new Mumsnet account after being banned, to continue talking about Meghan, have been haters. Not a single pro-Meghan poster has been exposed as a PBP, but several Meghan-haters have.

The only people who have spammed multiple forums with the same post (i.e. created a thread on Mumsnet, then copy and pasted the post in order to create identical threads on Datalounge, LA, CDAN, etc. etc.) are haters.

The only people to have "campaign tactics" to try to get people they disagree with deleted or kicked off Mumsnet (e.g. the threads on the 'banned' rival forum, where Meghan haters openly brag about how they make malicious false reports and lie to what they describe as "gullible MNHQ" to get fan posts deleted) have been haters.

The only people who have been busted photoshopping screencaps of fake DM conversations in an attempt to frame posters and get them banned from Mumsnet, have been haters doing it to fans.

The only people who have doxxed other posters or stalked posters outside of MN have been haters doing it to fans.

NONE of this is normal behaviour! It's weird, scary obsession. Stop acting like anyone who objects to the endless lies, racial abuse and tsunami of hate is comparable to all that.

Whose private jet fiasco?

H&M or W&K?

Rosetylersbiggun, is there not a middle ground though, where people can discuss their fascinating antics without being called a racist or indeed be a racist. Is the only option to be an idoliser or a racist abuser? Surely if you want to launch your life on Netflix you want people to talk about you?

stairway Frankly, I think the middle way where Meghan is the topic, though it makes perfect sense, is difficult to achieve on MN because of the history. It has been really really bad. I have been on MN for a long time and I de-registered because it was so distressing to me, and I felt that I could not be a part of a community where that kind of vitriol was posted. I did come back (hence the "redux" after my name), and I think MN got much better at deleting the offending posts and often whole threads. But there is an institutional history, and it is not pretty.

is there not a middle ground though, where people can discuss their fascinating antics without being called a racist or indeed be a racist. Is the only option to be an idoliser or a racist abuser?

But the haters are the ones saying casting everyone who doesn't hate Meghan as an "idoliser" accusing anyone who doesn't worship Meghan of being racist. In the past posters who have been very critical of her have been falsely accused of being worshipping stans just for objecting to the use of racial terms, or for pointing out a factual error, when clearly they didn't even like Meghan.

I've read variations on the sentence "fans think anyone who doesn't worship Meghan is a racist" or "if you criticise Meghan you're called a racist" at least 50 times, but I've literally never seen anyone actually say that, ever. The idea that people are being cruelly wrongly accused of racism purely for "being critical" or "not being a fan" is just another lie designed to silence debate.

And... maybe it's simply not possible to host such a debate on a forum with a well-known white supremacy problem, which has been targeted so intensely by a tiny group with an agenda. There are other forums that do host reasoned discussion about Meghan where both pro- and critical voices are heard. It simply may be that Mumsnet is not, right now, capable of being one of those places.

There are other forums that do host reasoned discussion about Meghan where both pro- and critical voices are heard. What are those?

A forum with a well known white supremacy problem. Eh?

Why does racism rear its ugly head every time MM is mentioned on MN?

Great photo.

I used to live somewhere pretty and every weekend there’d be pregnant women and their partners out there posing for pregnancy photos taken by professional photographers. Just like this. It’s really a fairly common thing to do for people with the money to spare.

Given the last time they were accused of faking the pregnancy, I think posters suggesting they could have made no announcement, released no photo, and simply made a quiet statement after the birth are being colossally naive.