Thoughts on the ‘IPad generation’

[Cash02]

Are you ever in a restaurant or the supermarket and you see children completely engrossed into their screens, their sticky, food encrusted screens? (exaggerating)

What are your thoughts? If you have any?
My little girl is 7 months, I’ve no clue on what parenting a toddler is like and I won’t pretend I do.
However people for thousands of years raised children without IPads, what’s changed?
I don’t plan on giving my daughter an IPad as I’ve been reading about the negative affects, but I was just wondering what the general consensus is?
There’s the infamous story, where young children were given books and they tried to swipe the pages like a smart device.
It seems sad to me, but at the same time, every new technology has its critics.
But Is the impact on social and creative skills really deniable?
(I would like to state I’m not talking about families who have a shared iPad that everyone uses on occasion, I’m talking about children who own their own and are on it seemingly constantly)

@JayDot500
Don’t worry about it, this thread has kept me up all night, I should probably sleep myself!

@PantomimeRhyme
Thank you! It’s nice to see a similar perspective to mine.

Cash I'm surprised you can't see that not every element of parenting is as easy as people think it is going to be before they try it.

I'm glad you're happy with your decision, but maybe wait until you've survived the toddler stage before judging others!

@Stompythedinosaur
I’m fully aware that parenting isn’t as easy at people may think, I thought I could put my baby in her cot and she’ll fall asleep, ha, nothing but a fever dream.
My point is that it doesn’t stop it being harmful in some circumstances.

I think little bits of screen time are ok, but have to say I don't like seeing children in restaurants at the table with them. I don't blame parents but do blame British society as a whole for having a fairly non inclusive view of kids. My husband is Italian and we take our 5 and 7 year old out to eat quite often. In Italy no one bats an eye if your kids are eating with you at 8-9pm, but we've had looks here despite our kids being well behaved at the table. I'm a childminder and let my own children have screens once the preschoolers and toddlers have gone home. It's important for them to learn tech, however on a day where I've allowed them to have more screen time than usual their behaviour is noticeably worse. Although I think it's important for them to learn tech, it would be irresponsible not to, I think with under 5s it's important to let them learn how to occupy themselves (without screens) It's a really important skill. I can tell which children have a lot of screen time when they come to me - they find it harder to take part in child-led activities where they just need to play and pretend. Just an observation.

@Aria999

DS is 5. He has quite a lot of iPad though it is regulated. He's had it in small doses since age 2 (starting just for planes and restaurants) and now gets more.

Things he does with it;

Learning to read
Watching tv eg paw patrol
Playing mostly educational games eg about archeology
Watching informational shows eg dr binocs
Watching things like Ryan's world where he gets ideas for experiments and imaginative play that we then do together
Coloring
Freehand drawing
Watching random crap on YouTube but think we have that locked down with the content control by now

I haven't seen any real evidence that screen time is bad at all to be honest never mind anything that's properly looked at different kinds of content. (Please hit me with links to research papers if you want to!)

There's mostly just a lot of prejudice out there.

That sounds like a balance between fruitful and entertaining use of his time. I don’t think it’s fair to completely generalise about how every child uses their device.

But I think it’s obvious to most adults that the addictiveness of screens - and they’re literally designed to grab your attention and keep it for as long as possible- can curtail your ability to enjoy and focus on other activities. Nothing else is quite as stimulating, the retreat to scrolling on the phone or iPad is too compelling. It’s not the fault of users - it’s what tech companies have deliberately set out to do. And it was definitely not designed with the interests of children in mind.

I’d encourage everyone to listen to a Podcast called ‘Your Undivided Attention’ by Tristan Harris (former design ethicist at Google).

As a teacher who has to teach children how to use an iPad, please do get them used to it at home if you can! Everything in moderation, obviously, but the occasional bit of supervised iPad time (or any phone/tablet) is a good thing nowadays IMO.

my dd is almost 10. She has had her own iPad since she was 5. She has way more technology knowledge than me which is embarrassing and is a prolific reader, devouring books within hours or days of reading them ( dependent on length ) so I don’t think they’re necessarily a bad thing.

iPads have never been used as a babysitter in our house though and she has so many other things to occupy her and self regulates within reason. She won’t be getting a phone until she goes to high school and uses her iPad to stay in touch with her friends.

i also clean it several times a day

It's addictive. Google "screen time addictive" and you'll see all the articles and studies in it.

www.fatherly.com/health-science/screen-time-hurts-kids-dopamine-addiction/

As PP say, they are designed to trigger addictive behaviours. The way we pull down to refresh - that's the same motion gamblers do at slots in casinos. The way the timeline refreshes and you don't know if it will be interesting (win) or boring (lose) - that's by design. It's addictive.

Read www.amazon.co.uk/Arguments-Deleting-Social-Media-Accounts/dp/1847925391

The only question is are you OK with your children being addicted to screens and the content on them. Many people are, and that's their decision.

I don't have much of an issue with some screen time for kids. As someone constantly on my phone I'd be pretty hypocritical. It's a different generation and this is a way of life. It's also every bit of information at our fingertips. Our instant gratification of knowledge is a positive. Don't know something? Google it. Back in my day you just had to shrug and say, "I don't know". Now my kids are expected to be able to access education via tech, they are perfectly capable.
Of course there are definitely limits. I've found the best way to enforce screen time caps is to make them having a device my choice and not theirs. They come off the second I say so, every time. No "Five more minutes", no negotiations and definitely no tantrums about it. If I think they need off it, I take it. At 14, 11 and 8 I still retain control of when they can have them.
Despite not having a huge issue when it comes to devices, I have never let mine have them when dining out. The iPad and kindles have never left the house (except mine which comes to work so I can listen to an audiobook whilst working) No devices out even as babies and toddlers (though my 14 yo will snap a pic of her food or a family pic now) but we have also never given them toys or crayons etc at the table. Maybe my kids are not the norm but we just go out and eat and the kids are expected to behave without being constantly entertained.
I can't be doing with disengaged little screen zombies at a family meal, watching a blaring episode of Peppa pig and disturbing other diners. You don't have to go down that route.

I was very anti-iPad for my DS until lockdown one hit and I found myself working from home with a 3yo! Could not have ordered one faster! What a wanker I had been until then.

There are some days when he is on it a lot. There are days when he is hardly on it at all. His favourite thing to do is design railways on the Brio app and then try to copy them with his own brio. He also has a book collection running into the hundreds, many of which he has memorised completely because we read a lot. It's all about balance.

I love the way the op keeps repeating that she is not judging but has accused one poster of struggling to read and called another one dense

Unpleasant

I plan on keeping technology away for as long as possible. I think biggest factor in this is modelling the behaviour you want to see yourself. Have your child see you reading books and enjoying them, not sitting on your phone etc. From when my toddler was a baby I always kept books around while we were playing and I’d just flip through them (like cookery books etc) while playing on the floor. I try and put my phone away whilst she’s awake other than to answer calls etc. I read to her endlessly and keep books of her’s all over the house now in every room and she has grown up with a real love of books. Pre lock down i’d take paper and pens / crayons out with us to cafes etc and she was happy scribbling while I chatted to my friend etc. It’s all about how you frame the activities: show interest in what they are looking at, talk about your environment, make up little games with stuff that’s lying about. If you can raise a child who can make their own fun and entertain themselves you are passing on a great gift. I think tv has its uses though and she probably watches 45 mins a day while I make the tea etc but I try and only show her a limited range of programmes she likes - not something new everyday - the Julia Donaldson animated stories, nature programmes etc. Repetition is useful for them at toddler age and tv at least can be a social activity you can watch together as a family.

@Snowpaw be careful, be very careful- we did the same, mine are now in the late teens and my house is overflowing with books- they won’t throw any away as they love them......

We loved the Julia Donaldson books....I miss those days of reading to and with little ones. When I retire I am going to volunteer in school to listen to readers. I did that when I worked part time, used to be the best morning of my week!

I don’t allow screens at cafes/in public. I also don’t allow them during dinner etc unless it’s film night. We eat and talk. My dc are not allowed to play games and do not have any tech of their own. They won’t have until secondary school when it’s limited use and kept in a place where I can see if it’s gone. When he complained others at school play games, I explained that it isn’t healthy in the brain and often works on an addiction pathway that makes us want to do something too much and think about it when we’re not doing it. He understands there’s an age limit and accepts it. Unfortunately there is use at school with drawing etc but he knows I don’t agree with it and if it was my choice, he wouldn’t be using it. At home, we print all school work and write it. I hate seeing toddlers on screens, but wouldn’t comment to others on it obviously as I don’t know the full situation. We have done hospital stays, super long train journeys (hours and hours as no car and family live 7 hours away by train), shopping, meals out and all normal activities without them and will continue to.

My kids are older now and never had tablets regularly as toddlers. But now at 9 and 7 they do watch/play on their kindles. They both have netlfix, Disney and iplayer on them so they go off and watch what they fancy if they so wish. I make sure they arent on them for hours and hours but its how they like to chill out. They don't have access to YouTube anymore. Even the kids YouTube. They'd both just end up watching mindless rubbish.

My dc watch a lot of tv and tablet at the moment. These are strange times and Dh and I need to work.

But in normal times, there is a time and place for it. It’s not for normal every day times where realistically they need to participate in conversation or just adjust to dealing with boredom. I’ve never used screens during a meal or to do the food shopping. Weekend mornings at home or while we’re making dinner during the week, fine. Planes and trains, fine. When we are visiting friends or on holiday and they’ve been busy all day and are grumbly and we just want to have adult conversation and they need some time to decompress. But generally in normal times I expect them to entertain themselves.

That’s not to judge though, I watched tv like most of the day every day when I wasn’t in school as a child. I turned out perfectly fine, have a PhD, read lots of books, enjoy the outdoors, actually rarely watch any as an adult.

We don’t know how these children are going to turn out is my point really.

I'm sure they will turn out fine. There are many, many different ways to parent and all have more or less the same end result. Feed them, shelter them, love them, give them some basic boundaries to help keep them safe and the rest tends to sort itself out without too much handwringing.

I’ve seen friends with older kids despair at how addicted their kids are to Xbox and games consoles.
One teen became so unsocial, barely saw anyone and failed all his GCSEs because of the Xbox.
That really influenced how I wanted my dcs to use tech.
I’ve limited the times they can game and have insisted that games are purely a leisure activity after everything else that’s needed to be done is done.
I probably sound overly strict but I think it’s helped my dcs who now as teens, have a bit of a balance and are used to it.

The scary thing about tablets and kids is the fucking huge meltdowns and sheer fucking aggression some kids display wjeiyiu take it away from them.

My friends little girl is nearly 7 and had had to be banned from tablets/phone for a while because she would get so angry at her mum if she said "5 minutes/one more level/finish dressing that doll" , she would get angry and snarl "no!" And then the mum would be tugging device out if her hands, an the time the 6yo getting angrier and shouting "no it's mine /I want more". And then shed have a real tantrum about it all after. Screaming, trying to hit mum etc.

In every other aspect and with any other toy, the girl was reasonable, sweet, polite, understood that 5 minutes was 5 minutes etc.

She only ever displayed this behaviour on a tablet/phone.

So now, she gets to go on it for a set amount of time. And if any aggression is displayed, it is banned again for a week.

She's much better. She doesn't like it when it's time to stop,bit know she kind of just pouts and tried to negotiate for more time, but it never works,so she hands it over.

Having computer consoles in bedrooms is a bad idea I feel.

If kids/teens had to play on the main TV (like the good old days) they have to negotiate with the rest of the family for "their" time, don't get the privacy needed to be groomed/swear/argue with friends, also you can see exactly what they're playing.

DS17 has had Wii growing up and now has a switch. But it lives in the living room, always has. If he doesn't like it, tough. He can have one in his bedroom when he lives somewhere else. Or maybe after he's finished his A-LEVELS. But be will need to buy himself a TV for his room if he wants to do that.

Having computer consoles in bedrooms is a bad idea I feel.

This is one of our rules. We don't have time limits on screens but we do have a "no phones/tablets in your rooms" and the games consoles (Switch, Xbox, PS4) are in the family rooms downstairs. We have Alexas upstairs but not in the DCs rooms.

The world is changing, I never understand the people who are adamantly against phones or ipads.
"I didn't have an ipad when I was young and turned out fine" is a totally pointless argument as it was a different time.

Always dumping your kid in front of a screen, not socialising them normally is the far end of the scale and no a reason to avoid all screens.

The reality is ipads, phones etc are a great learning tool, do not stunt creativity and the skills will be needed for a significant amount of activities your kid will need as they grow.

@Nishky
Full offence there’s only so many times you can reiterate the same point.

@Cash02 but you never need to be unpleasant- you can ignore. Your daughter will learn from observing how you treat others