Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

@MrsSchadenfreude

I’m in Central Europe. We have to wear masks all the time here, in the streets, everywhere. If you’re not wearing a mask, you won’t be allowed on public transport or into shops. They take your temperature every time you go into a shop. There is pretty much full compliance with mask wearing. The number of cases and deaths have plummeted. Shops have remained open, but restaurants can only open if they have a terrace (so not indoors).

England has made it crystal clear that it is doing things it's way. No matter how well other countries are doing.

People claiming they're exempt, yet arbitrarily taking it upon themselves to decide that GP's are too busy

People are not arbitrarily deciding this.

www.gponline.com/deal-patient-requests-face-covering-exemption-letters/article/1690925

People are not arbitrarily deciding this

On MN they are. Thanks for link as I have not seen it referred to in the very many posts there have been on this subject.

Whatever the case - there needs to be exemption notes. GP is capable of writing a sick note, so can write an exemption note. It needs to be regularised.

I can see lockdown lasting for months on end the way this is going

@SerendipityJane pity they’re not doing so well on suicide rates over the past decade. Maybe some countries are more willing to sacrifice people with mental health problems.

@DeeCeeCherry

People are not arbitrarily deciding this

On MN they are. Thanks for link as I have not seen it referred to in the very many posts there have been on this subject.

Whatever the case - there needs to be exemption notes. GP is capable of writing a sick note, so can write an exemption note. It needs to be regularised.

I can see lockdown lasting for months on end the way this is going

But what are they going to write? GPS cannot diagnose most mental health issues. There’s massive issues accessing mental health services. So all that can happen is someone goes to dr says I have x cos I feel like x dr writes them a note - same result as ordering a lanyard off Amazon it adds nothing but work load to GPs

@Viviennemary

Glad she was. As from what you say her attitude was poor.

Ihatefish

But what are they going to write? GPS cannot diagnose most mental health issues. There’s massive issues accessing mental health services. So all that can happen is someone goes to dr says I have x cos I feel like x dr writes them a note - same result as ordering a lanyard off Amazon it adds nothing but work load to GPs

GP has access to medical history. GP can write 'Exempt on medical grounds' based on that.

Others have to provide proof of exemption for other matters. Reading threads it just comes across as finding 100 ways to keep current status quo of not having to do so.

A Blue Badge is evidence of parking exemptions etc due toba person's disability. Someone else can't use that Badge, or just claim disability without providing evidence so that a Badge can be issued to them.

Why should non-face covering wearers be different? They are claiming an exemption.

A pandemic is life-threatening. Unique situation, unique methods then.

As far as possible everyone should play their part in minimising spread of virus and hopefully laying it to rest/lockdown restrictions easing sooner rather than later.

My GP surgery website states the exemptions and where to print off a card/buy one. They will not under ANY circumstances provide an exemption letter. The NHS businesses unilaterally decided that was not necessary. Nor will they provide a letter for sheilding or LA assesssments (blue badge/care) because those were suspended for upto two years last March or DWP assessments, they're only provided if the DWP ask for them, which the fuckers don't because then they might just have to pay disabled people the money they actually need.

There's no little side note saying when people take the piss extra resources have to be found. Those genuinely exempt can just be abused because well, fuck em, we've stopped their care assessments and access to help and support they need so let the whiney fuckers be abused by nosy random members of the public, with nothing better to do, as well. Not forgetting of course some of the little shits would actually expect treatment for covid when they're already knocking on deaths door.

I am exempt. I do everything I can to avoid twats but you know what? It's impossible. Maybe they should get a note from their GP, wear a damn badge for that.

Wearing a mask incidentally doesn't mean you get to ignore the 2m rule either, just stay the hell away and learn some patience. No time, in a rush? Go when you aren't in a rush. No law saying you must go and buy lunch every day is there?

I watched the video and this poor woman was definitely discriminated against. She wasn’t screeching. She was flustered and understandably upset but didn’t shout or get rude.

I doubt the manager calls the Police every time someone without a mask walks into the store, so I suspect there was a lot more that went on before she filmed that video.

My GP surgery is down 75% of staff. That's due to staff being relocated elsewhere and sheilding if and only if their jobs can be done from home.

I watched the video and this poor woman was definitely discriminated against

Poor women my arse. She's an anti mask anti vax nutjob with an agenda who engineered the situation on purpose for attention.

[quote TempsPerdu]@JinglingHellsBells Since you have either not read or deliberately ignored my previous reply to you, I shall reiterate: trigeminal neuralgia is a real, pukka, legitimate, non-made up, non-pisstaking medical disorder that would exempt the sufferer from wearing a mask. Or a visor.

If this justification is insufficient for you, perhaps you would like to take it up with DP’s Harley Street consultant?[/quote]
@TempsPerdu I have not seen your post. I tagged another poster, asking them what they would define as disability. It was a genuine question. I didn't ignore you, I just don't read every single page or post.

@Becca19962014
👏 👏

@DeeCeeCherry

People are not arbitrarily deciding this

On MN they are. Thanks for link as I have not seen it referred to in the very many posts there have been on this subject.

Whatever the case - there needs to be exemption notes. GP is capable of writing a sick note, so can write an exemption note. It needs to be regularised.

I can see lockdown lasting for months on end the way this is going

What do you mean, 'on MN they are'?

GPs have been told that exemption letters are not necessary and they have been given no funding for providing these. Vanishingly few people who are genuinely exempt from wearing a mask have something already on their notes to show this, because there is no list of conditions that make a person exempt and because it was never an issue until last summer.

So most people would require a consultation and actually GPs are extremely busy at the moment. On top of all the usual winter workload, plus covid workload, plus multiple staff members off sick or isolating, they are now also heavily involved in rolling out the vaccine. This would be an incredibly poor use of their time.

It's not inconceivable that a system of verified exemption notes could be set up in the long term. It would take a lot of time and resources and would only be worth doing if we are expecting to have to live with mandatory mask laws in the long term. Are we?

It also wouldn't solve the problem of all the people who are unable to wear a mask because of past sexual trauma suddenly being required to disclose details of their abuse for the first time, just to get a piece of paper that permits them to get a pint of milk or get on a bus. It would be a bit like the third child rape clause for people claiming benefits. Some people thought that was a good idea and I haven't changed my opinion of them. This wouldn't only affect poor people though so I expect fewer people would be quite so enthusiastic about it.

Requiring mask exempt people to produce a piece of paper, or just banning them from indoor public places and public transport altogether, is not the key to getting us out of lockdown. Otherwise all the 'In my country there are no exemptions' people would be proudly naming their country and showing us how their significant reduction in cases can be linked to the introduction of their mask laws.

The basic problem is people mixing. Especially indoors, especially when there are a lot of people there, especially if people are unable to socially distance and especially if the space is poorly ventilated. Masks can mitigate the risk by a small amount, so everyone should wear one if they can, but they're not magic.

Or what Becca said

My partner's sister has spent the last year saying that Covid isn't real, and refusing to wear a mask. She is now stating that she is exempt; she has no justification for this other than being a complete twat (and I don't think that is on the list of exemptions).

Nothing I can do about it, but that has made me feel a little better.

@Ihatefish

So all that can happen is someone goes to dr says I have x cos I feel like x dr writes them a note - same result as ordering a lanyard off Amazon

Yes, but it will act as a deterrent. Those who just want to take the piss are unlikely to go to all this trouble, they will just wear a mask

[quote LangClegsInSpace]People claiming they're exempt, yet arbitrarily taking it upon themselves to decide that GP's are too busy

People are not arbitrarily deciding this.

www.gponline.com/deal-patient-requests-face-covering-exemption-letters/article/1690925[/quote]
This is within that link:

Of course, if the legitimacy of their reason is challenged they may at some point require evidence of their condition. It is possible that at this point GPs would be asked for a brief letter or an excerpt of their notes to confirm the relevant diagnosis.

In this scenario, we would advise that any letter simply states the diagnosis the patient relied on without an opinion on how this might prevent face covering use.

So yes, GPs could be asked to assist with proof.

A Blue Badge is evidence of parking exemptions etc due toba person's disability. Someone else can't use that Badge, or just claim disability without providing evidence so that a Badge can be issued to them.

Yes because UK law requires proof to get a blue badge

Why should non-face covering wearers be different? They are claiming an exemption.

Because U.K. law specifically prohibits asking for proof and authorises citizens to self identify as exempt.

They’re different because that’s what Parliament voted into law. You want mask exempt to be held to same standard as blue badge, write your MP and ask Parliament to write a new law.

There's definitely more going on behind the scenes here. I've never worn a mask. Never. And I have never been confronted about it. Through the various lockdowns I have gone into many different shops/restaurants/etc. and no one has mentioned my lack of a mask. I've even been to a funeral. As PPs have said, perhaps this woman was spoiling for a fight.

@WanderingMilly

If you are genuinely exempt from wearing a mask, then don't go into shops where lots of other people are. Get someone to do your shopping for you or use home delivery or whatever. Just because you're exempt from mask wearing doesn't mean you won't spread COVID, have some thought for others.

For those who just don't want to wear a mask, I have no patience with you and your 'rights'. Why do your rights take priority over everyone else's to be safe? Go and exercise your right down a country lane where there's nobody around and you can walk around with no mask without causing danger. Don't parade it in shops where you are compromising the safety of others. And great that the shop will take issue and throw you out...

This

@JinglingHellsBells - @TempsPerdu I have not seen your post. I tagged another poster, asking them what they would define as disability. It was a genuine question. I didn't ignore you, I just don't read every single page or post.

Yes, you tagged me. I didn't bother replying because I've watched you ask the same question over and over on numerous threads and then ignore the responses.

The EA defines a disability as a mental or physical impairment that has a substantial, long-term, adverse effect on someone's ability to carry out day-to-day activities. There isn't a list of conditions and nobody needs an official diagnosis to be protected. HTH.

This is within that link:

Of course, if the legitimacy of their reason is challenged they may at some point require evidence of their condition. It is possible that at this point GPs would be asked for a brief letter or an excerpt of their notes to confirm the relevant diagnosis.

In this scenario, we would advise that any letter simply states the diagnosis the patient relied on without an opinion on how this might prevent face covering use.

So yes, GPs could be asked to assist with proof.

Read it again more carefully.

If a patient is requesting evidence from their GP because the legitimacy of their reason has been challenged, that will generally mean that they are disputing a fixed penalty notice, which means they are preparing to defend themselves against a criminal conviction.

That is miles and miles away from requesting evidence upfront, for every exempt person, simply to go about their everyday life.

Even in these dire circumstances, where someone is facing the possibility of a summons to a criminal court, GPs are advised to simply confirm any diagnosis their patient is relying on and not to offer an opinion on whether the patient can wear a mask or not.

Stte

Yes this woman was right about not having to show proof of exemption according to the law and she knew it too.

However, Sainsburys are also within their rights to refuse to serve someone who is not following store policy (for whatever reason that may be).

So overall, I think they were right to have her escorted off the premises.

I winder if she will actually sue the police/Sainsburys or just vote with her feet and go shop elsewhere?

Tbh I think we are far too lax in the UK wrt mask wearing. In Italy, they ask you to leave straight away if you walk in anywhere without a mask on. There are no exemptions. Even small children have to wear a mask ffs!

@bobbojobbo

She was a massive tit and deserved it.

Yup! Every chancer trying their luck.