Woman thrown out of Sainsbury's for not wearing a mask.

[Viviennemary]

When asked why she wasn't wearing one she told the police they were not allowed to challenge her or ask about her disability. (wrong apparently). She said she'd be taking them to court. Police have criticised ministers for giving conflicting advice. I think it's time this was cleared up. It's far too vague. So seems like people do need some proof of the reasons they can't wear a mask.

[Paapa]

@lockdownshmockdown
It's just all so dispiriting, isn't it

Hancock was quoted at the start of the mandate saying that it was just 'to give shoppers confidence' - or 'to placate the idiots' as I prefer to phrase it. As a PP posted, it literally said on the government pages that the evidence was weak and the effects likely to be small - right above where they listed the fines for non-compliance.
Yet still so many people don't realise that all the mask mandate does is cater their stupidity, fear and ignorance!

I bet the government didn't quite anticipate how much the idiot masses would go in for it though. Sadly, I could have told them that.
The unintended consequences are far worse than most of these horrid believer/enforcers could ever comprehend.

[lockdownshmockdown]

@Paapa

Mask do work if you wear one.

There is just no good evidence of this!
Decades of studies prior to 2020 said that they're pretty much no good. Viruses are tiny. So small people just can't comprehend it. Think at how bad the average person is at understanding science, and then remember that a significant number of people are worse than average.

Sadly, masking is just something that 'makes sense' to the lay person. 'It comes out of the nose and mouth, right? Therefore covering them up = massively helpful and good'.
Never mind that they've not worked anywhere (and don't 'but Japan' at me - Tokyo has now declared a state of emergency and cultural mask practices have never had an impact on flu transmission). It still just makes sense to people that they MUST 'do something'.

The government understands this, and needed people to be less scared, so they mandated them. It's like giving Dumbo his magic feather, except way more sinister.
I can't tell you how depressing it is to have to witness how many people truly believe that mask mandates are a good idea. You're showing yourselves up.

This is a fantastic post. Thank Christ some people get it.

There is a middle ground between COVID denying conspiracy theorist and the sort of folk who mask up in the middle of nowhere, shower when they get in the door, boil wash their clothes immediately, and bleach their shopping.

Masks are performative and I refuse to dance. So many people have spoken to me saying they don't agree with masks but are scared not to wear them. Not for fear of the virus but for fear of being judged or punished. Well, some of us have to show that it's ok to say no to it. We all have our boundaries and this is one of mine.

Mumsnet certainly doesn't reflect the real world on my experience.

[lockdownshmockdown]

[quote trulydelicious]@lockdownshmockdown

I haven't worn a mask the entire time. Since March onwards. Not once

People like you are the real reason why those who truly can't wear a mask find life so difficult at the moment. You should be ashamed, not boast about it.

I hope rules become tougher to ensure compliance, no silly loopholes[/quote]
I'm not boasting. I'm stating a fact. I choose based on research not to wear a mask as I think they do more harm than good. I also make more of an effort to stay clean and keep distance from people because I think this does make a difference.

Mumsnet is a hub of hysteria. Since March not one person has confronted me or bothered me and, to the contrary, strangers have chatted with me in supermarkets quite happily. On Mumsnet the general consensus is you'd rather see someone wear a grotty old mask they pull out of their bag or pocket whenever they enter a shop than not wear one at all and follow other guidelines.

Hopefully "people like you" will calm down eventually.

[trulydelicious]

@lockdownshmockdown

I haven't worn a mask the entire time. Since March onwards. Not once

People like you are the real reason why those who truly can't wear a mask find life so difficult at the moment. You should be ashamed, not boast about it.

I hope rules become tougher to ensure compliance, no silly loopholes

[Paapa]

Mask do work if you wear one.

There is just no good evidence of this!
Decades of studies prior to 2020 said that they're pretty much no good. Viruses are tiny. So small people just can't comprehend it. Think at how bad the average person is at understanding science, and then remember that a significant number of people are worse than average.

Sadly, masking is just something that 'makes sense' to the lay person. 'It comes out of the nose and mouth, right? Therefore covering them up = massively helpful and good'.
Never mind that they've not worked anywhere (and don't 'but Japan' at me - Tokyo has now declared a state of emergency and cultural mask practices have never had an impact on flu transmission). It still just makes sense to people that they MUST 'do something'.

The government understands this, and needed people to be less scared, so they mandated them. It's like giving Dumbo his magic feather, except way more sinister.
I can't tell you how depressing it is to have to witness how many people truly believe that mask mandates are a good idea. You're showing yourselves up.

[Whythesadface]

Mask do work if you wear one.
I feel very sad for people who feel so entitled that they won't wear a mask, and there are many reports of them dying.

[DeeCeeCherry]

Deeceecherry misses the point completely

Well not really. They weren't my comments. You said it yourselves.

Just highlights that people with disabilities/vulnerable/truly can't wear a mask don't necessarily make up the bulk of people who don't wear a face-coverings.

[mrandmrslobster]

And for those slavering at shops denying entry, I can guarantee this doesn't happen. I have been to both Sainsbury's and Morrison's and it's fine. If anyone is being escorted from the premises it's because they're acting like a pillock to staff.

[lockdownshmockdown]

I haven't worn a mask the entire time. Since March onwards. Not once. No one has bothered me about it. I carry on as normal and no one seems to care. Twice since March I have been asked going into a shop if I have a mask. I have replied "no I don't need one" and that's been the end of it. I have never lied and said I'm exempt. I politely say "no thank you I don't need one" and carry on with my day.

Masks are not effective and I won't play performance politics by wearing one. I think they do far more harm than good. That doesn't mean I don't wash my hands and keep away from people etc. etc.

[Paapa]

Those who've put those comments up can simply say they're exempt and walk into store, rather than give their real reason for not wearing masks as they know they'll then be denied entry...

Has it occurred to you, that those reasons are also very good ones?
If you feel that a very harmful cultural norm is being enforced without good reason, it's your duty to resist. I most people just don't understand this - because either they're in the stupid camp who think that the mask mandate is a proportionate and effective measure, or because they just don't find wearing a mask difficult or a huge imposition, and cannot empathise with those who do (doubly the case if they're the stupid type who believes that masks do much).

People would have to have it put into a context where they would be distressed physically, mentally or ethically, to really understand what's going on.

Let's say that the next thing they mandate is shaved heads for everyone, because the virus can cling to hair and then be wafted onto others. I'm pretty sure that if the right person in authority said it (but even admitted that there was scant evidence), and there was enough social pressure to do it and fines for none compliance, that a large number of people would go for this, shave their heads and call others selfish for not doing so ' It's only hair! People are dying! STOP BEING SO VAIN!'. Many more would see this as a huge personal affront, and protest it - as they rightly should.

Or, say the government mandated a drill run for everyone, once a day, unless exempt. They're organised locally and attendance registers are taken. How many of you would be ok with that one....?
(Funnily enough, enforced fitness programs would probably make way more difference to the death rates than mask mandates, since obesity is a main co-morbidity).

[BohemianDream]

Deeceecherry misses the point completely.

Pundemmic expects people to blindly follow rules without question. And no this isn't the only issue I intend on making a stand on.

That is not the society that I want my children to grow up in.

[Pundemmic]

If the rules are to wear masks, why not just wear them? There are smaller shops that low key allow people without masks in. I have never understood why people feel that this is the one issue they have to make a stand on?

[DeeCeeCherry]

I think that plenty of people are actually stupid enough to believe that a bit of cloth will make a significant difference

I am no covid denier and I am very much for the collective good but I will not accept that facemasks are a valuable tool until I am provided real evidence to suggest so

They encourage a false sense of personal security whilst creating a perfect warm and moist environment for pathogens to grow

free to take my child to the shops and for them to see my face whilst doing so, a small and important liberty in my opinion

Those who've put those comments up can simply say they're exempt and walk into store, rather than give their real reason for not wearing masks as they know they'll then be denied entry...

[Worldgonecrazy]

I think that plenty of people are actually stupid enough to believe that a bit of cloth will make a significant difference.

the response to your post illustrates your point most perfectly

I think we do ourselves a great disservice by not remembering that, yes, people really are that stupid! But it gives them a comfort blanket and someone to blame.

You are right in that it is the same fear driven behaviours seen during the witch trials.

[Paapa]

The Norwegian government calculated that if 200 000 people wore masks for one entire week, maybe one infection could be prevented.

I'm pretty sure that most people here would think that this number makes it worth the distress, skin infections, bacterial infections, child development and other psychological problems, the danger of masks becoming a cultural norm mandated every winter, the danger of breathing fabric fibres into the lungs, the increased danger of falls in the elderly, and so many other things.

People's lack of understanding of risk and proportion has fair ruined the world.

[Coronawireless]

Maybe every little DOES help.

[Coronawireless]

@Paapa

In these times I don't think your argument would hold up anywhere really. We're in the midst of a Pandemic and just have to do our best for all our sakes.

The 'argument' that even the government who mandated these stupid things says that they do virtually nothing?

The vitriol for those who do not/cannot wear them is far, far out of proportion to the potential benefits of them.

I think that plenty of people are actually stupid enough to believe that a bit of cloth will make a significant difference.
For the rest, it's definitely a moral outrage that's driving them. that people simply aren't trying hard enough - even though the effect is infinitesimal if anything, and the harms to society of the mask mandate are so large - you're a bad person if you don't try.

Madness. Moral panic, Salem witch hunt style, nasty, bitter, madness.

One would almost think this disease is made up and it’s hardly spreading at all and hardly anyone is contracting it....oh wait...

[Paapa]

In these times I don't think your argument would hold up anywhere really. We're in the midst of a Pandemic and just have to do our best for all our sakes.

The 'argument' that even the government who mandated these stupid things says that they do virtually nothing?

The vitriol for those who do not/cannot wear them is far, far out of proportion to the potential benefits of them.

I think that plenty of people are actually stupid enough to believe that a bit of cloth will make a significant difference.
For the rest, it's definitely a moral outrage that's driving them. that people simply aren't trying hard enough - even though the effect is infinitesimal if anything, and the harms to society of the mask mandate are so large - you're a bad person if you don't try.

Madness. Moral panic, Salem witch hunt style, nasty, bitter, madness.

[rosetylersbiggun]

In America people can "self-identify" any pet as an emotional support pet, which has been massively abused and led to people showing up in shops and airports with everything from hamsters, snakes, spiders, even ponies.

It's a difficult area, but unfortunately letting people self-declare without any kind of qualifying process is open to abuse. It's hard to find a line between protecting the system from abuse, and ensuring those protections don't create additional barriers for actual disabled people.

[trulydelicious]

@Worldgonecrazy

They encourage a false sense of personal security whilst creating a perfect warm and moist environment for pathogens to grow

This is an excuse for those who don't want to wear them

A lot of people wash them every single day after use (I certainly do) and don't touch them at all while out.

[Worldgonecrazy]

You only need to see people adjusting masks if anyone in another aisle coughs, or pulling them tighter when passing on walks, to know that many people are wearing them as some sort of magical shield against COVID. The ‘I’m wearing it to protect you’ line doesn’t seem to be more than a parroted repetition with little actual belief in the statement.

That’s why I worry that masks may do more harm than good. They encourage a false sense of personal security whilst creating a perfect warm and moist environment for pathogens to grow, and we put them tight next to easy entry points for pathogens (mouth, nose, eyes). Hand washing and social awareness get forgotten.

The other day a friend went down with a cold, but was confused as they had worn a mask the whole time they were out 🤔

For every one person maintaining perfect mask hygiene there must be 50 who are increasing their risk rather than reducing it.

It’s a crazy world but at least it allows visible virtue signaling and compliance 😷

[BohemianDream]

If most people do know this, then why the scepticism when someone chooses not to wear a mask or more importantly cannot wear a mask. If most people knew this then this thread would not exist.
I'd be free to take my child to the shops and for them to see my face whilst doing so, a small and important liberty in my opinion. I am no covid denier and I am very much for the collective good but I will not accept that facemasks are a valuable tool until I am provided real evidence to suggest so. They should be optional and we should maintain social distancing where appropriate.
They should not be enforced, when we know that the effects are minimal.

[DeeCeeCherry]

Most people seem to be forgetting that masks are not some magical weapon

I'd say most know
that, but see it as a form of at least some protection.

In these times I don't think your argument would hold up anywhere really. We're in the midst of a Pandemic and just have to do our best for all our sakes.

[BohemianDream]

Just a wee bit of info from //www.gov.uk to remind those who are accusing the 'non maskers' of having blood on thier hands that the effectiveness of facemasks is small. Most people seem to be forgetting that masks are not some magical weapon, I cannot understand why people get so worked up about this. I read these posts and imagine what the world could be if people cared as much about child abuse etc.

Anyway here goes...
'It is important to know that the evidence of the benefit of using a face covering to protect others is weak and the effect is likely to be small, therefore face coverings are not a replacement for the other ways of managing risk, including minimising time spent in contact, using fixed teams and partnering for close-up work, and increasing hand and surface washing.'

I never thought I'd see the UK go so bloody mental.
Can't people just be reasonable and understand that some people are unable to wear one and do not deserve to be questioned. Others do not agree for other reasons, I won't be brushing up near you in Asda, so don't worry. You're far more likely to get covid from your spouse than some bare faced stranger in a supermarket.
World has gone mad, absolutely fucking mad.

[DeeCeeCherry]

If it came to it, supermarkets do food delivery. As do Amazon. Uber Eats - Many shops are now listed on there. Those are a few I know of, there must be many more.

There are people who can't wear masks but just like everything else, it needs regulating. Especially as a matter of life and death. We have one of the highest Covid rates in the world which is no small matter, and lucky to be here where at least deliveries and assistance are available.

For some of us statistics and numbers have turned to names of people who've died. It's natural that mask-less makes people wary and actually it's about the safety of those not wearing masks too, just as much as anyone else