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Lisa Montgomery executed

566 replies

PegasusReturns · 13/01/2021 08:17

Lisa Montgomery was executed yesterday - I don’t know how this amounts to justice in 2021. What an appalling tragedy her life and death was.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55642177

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 15/01/2021 18:06

No-one can be so naive as to think being executed is peaceful, surely.

But hey, you’ve admitted to mental illness and displayed some strange behaviour on this thread, so I won’t engage.

wonderup · 15/01/2021 18:16

@PlanDeRaccordement I agree with you.

something2say · 15/01/2021 18:30

Hi @witchesglove

In answer to your point, where do you draw the line with everyone claiming they were abused ...

It's not a get out clause I dont think. It's a fact.

If you deny a child love, hate him and hurt him, show him wrong after wrong after wrong and not let him see anything else... and all manner of other harmful things people do to one another, that child is going to mirror a lot of that because it's all he knows. Some cases that professionals see are almost beyond understanding and how do you make it right?

I remember a handful of people I've met in supported living environments where we just didn't know where to start with helping to make any changes whatsoever, we were just trying to cope with the behaviour that day.

Those people weren't making that up. Claiming their abusive backgrounds are an easy way off the hook is not it. They ACT OUT their abusive backgrounds. That's where the risk lies and that's why it is recognised. It often hasn't stopped yet.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 17/01/2021 08:43

Those people weren't making that up. Claiming their abusive backgrounds are an easy way off the hook is not it. They ACT OUT their abusive backgrounds. That's where the risk lies and that's why it is recognised. It often hasn't stopped yet.

Spot on, something.

They act them out because that is all they have ever known - it is their "normal".

And they act them out because it is a coping mechanism - in the same way that if (say_ you were involved in an awful accident, you would talk to all of your friends and family about it, and possibly a therapist, depending on what had happened, and would go over and over it in your own mind, getting a handle on it and learning to live with it and learn from it and re-establish control over the world around you which suddenly let you down in such a horrible way.

But they can't cope with it. It's too deep, it happened at too early an age when their young brains were still learning what was safe and what wasn't, and what was ok to do and what wasn't and what they learned was that nothing and no-one is safe, and that anything is ok to do if you are big enough and strong enough to impose your will on others. And that that is the only way to survive.

Many of these people have been through horrors that we can't even begin to imagine - horrors that, even if we experienced them as a confident and capable adult, would break us irreparably, and this has happened while they are young and malleable and vulnerable.

They are irretrievably broken as human beings - but it isn't their fault.

That's not to say that it's ok for them to do what they want, or to hurt and damage others - of course it isn't. Their behaviour is often hideous, and they also have children that they bring up in that image because that is all they know of parenting. They have to be taken out of society, but that doesn't mean we should kill them.

Arobase · 17/01/2021 10:07

Lisa was told weeks beforehand so she had time to have a panic attack and mentally prepare. She had an opportunity to write final letters and see loved ones. She chose to have no final words at her execution. And she was then put to sleep peacefully and then her heart was stopped.

But all of that merely means that the torture goes on and on and on, especially in the US where, even though the individual concerned may be pre-warned, they know that in practice there remains the possibility of deferment.

As human beings, we all have the instinct for self preservation. If you know you are going to be killed, your whole being is shrieking at you to try to save yourself. Can you imagine the sheer hell of living through those last few weeks, days and hours knowing that you are going to be cold-bloodedly killed and there is nothing you can do about it?

Bluntness100 · 17/01/2021 10:25

@Arobase

Lisa was told weeks beforehand so she had time to have a panic attack and mentally prepare. She had an opportunity to write final letters and see loved ones. She chose to have no final words at her execution. And she was then put to sleep peacefully and then her heart was stopped.

But all of that merely means that the torture goes on and on and on, especially in the US where, even though the individual concerned may be pre-warned, they know that in practice there remains the possibility of deferment.

As human beings, we all have the instinct for self preservation. If you know you are going to be killed, your whole being is shrieking at you to try to save yourself. Can you imagine the sheer hell of living through those last few weeks, days and hours knowing that you are going to be cold-bloodedly killed and there is nothing you can do about it?

Do you think it’s worse than knowing a woman you befriended is trying to kill you and cut your unborn child out your stomach whilst you try desperately to protect yourself?

Of course not. This is the law here, Lisa was fully aware of this, it was no surprise to her. She knew the likely punishment dor her crime, like she knew what she was doing when she spent months actively planning it.

What’s interesting is another man, Higgs has also jus had a federal execution, his defense are arguing he had a traumatic child hood which was mitigating and not mentioned to thr jury enough.

TatianaBis · 17/01/2021 11:39

I think there’s a basic failure to understand this Montgomery’s diagnoses. And the the impact of brain injury.

In addition, the defence psychiatric team testified that she had pseudocyesis - which is the false belief of being pregnant.

TatianaBis · 17/01/2021 11:43

@Arobase Absolutely.

Arobase · 17/01/2021 13:14

Do you think it’s worse than knowing a woman you befriended is trying to kill you and cut your unborn child out your stomach whilst you try desperately to protect yourself?

It's not a competition. Killing people is horrible full stop. Adding a veneer of official approval doesn't change that, if anything it makes it worse.

Bluntness100 · 17/01/2021 13:59

@TatianaBis

I think there’s a basic failure to understand this Montgomery’s diagnoses. And the the impact of brain injury.

In addition, the defence psychiatric team testified that she had pseudocyesis - which is the false belief of being pregnant.

But surely you get they had to? She had been claiming pregnancy for months, as a way to win her child custody battle, and has befriended this woman, under a fake name, who lived 200 miles away. She had been sterilised.

If the defence didn’t say that they would basically be admitting she planned it and their case was over.

Thelnebriati · 17/01/2021 14:07

I think a society that claims the right to take a life also has the responsibility to protect children from the kind of abuse that leads here.

TatianaBis · 17/01/2021 14:10

She’d actually been claiming on and off for years she was pregnant when she wasn’t. (She had also been genuinely pregnant too with her kids). She had recent searches on her pc for pregnancy related issues.

People who knew her said she tended to tune in and out of reality.

The false belief in being pregnant can apparently be linked to childhood sexual abuse.

DGRossetti · 17/01/2021 14:13

@Thelnebriati

I think a society that claims the right to take a life also has the responsibility to protect children from the kind of abuse that leads here.
Certainly in the UK and US, the subjects and citizens appear to be getting a very shitty deal in the social contract. Which apparently never existed, if the current UK shower are to be believed.
SchadenfreudePersonified · 17/01/2021 15:39

@Thelnebriati

I think a society that claims the right to take a life also has the responsibility to protect children from the kind of abuse that leads here.
Certainly does!
Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/01/2021 15:51

Bobbie is awakened by the agony and fights back, they found some of Lisa’s hair in her fist

Thanks for at least clarifying that, Plan - I almost wish I didn't know, but I'd wondered how they ever knew Bobbie was aware of what was happening, since they could hardly ask her afterwards

russiancurry · 17/01/2021 16:03

You can try offer empty platitudes if it makes you feel better, but when Montgomery was told that she was due to be executed in December she had a panic attack, according to her attorney.

Oh how my heart doesn't bleed for her. She had a panic attack ? That's nothing compared to what her victims went through,

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