Lisa Montgomery executed

[PegasusReturns]

Lisa Montgomery was executed yesterday - I don’t know how this amounts to justice in 2021. What an appalling tragedy her life and death was.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55642177

But Brietbart is OK?

@tatianabis @planderaccordement
I also have schizophrenia and have definitely planned things while psychotic ( nothing violent in any way, just things based on my delusions- only person they've caused any problems for is me!). But I would like to agree with with the PP (sorry can't remember their username) that being able to plan ahead does not prove absence of psychosis

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Of the 1,530 US executions (since 1973) only 14 have been federal executions. Arguing over 14 executions since 1973 seems to me now to be ignoring the mountain to focus on a molehill

Ah, but it enables a handy (if inaccurate) headline about Trump, which seems to be the important thing

And no, I can't stand him either, but if we're going to dislike him let's at least do it on the basis of facts

Absolutely! I really do not like Trump. Whenever Macron does something stupid, we call him “little Trump”. Trump is very unpopular here in France.

But it makes me so frustrated when left leaning media and Trump critics pump out deliberately misleading and exaggerated claims regarding his presidency. It’s like the boy who cried wolf story. These idiots keep crying wolf about Trump without any real basis and it just provides ammunition to the ultra right wing. We liberals discredit ourselves and throw that egg all over our faces every time they do this.

You will certainly discredit yourself if you don’t differentiate between federal and state executions.

I'm afraid so, Plan ... you'd think there were reasons enough to loathe him without having to make things up, but it seems they can't help themselves

@PlanDeRaccordement

More than 90 percent of prisoners have serious difficulties with learning and/or mental health. That alone tells us the justice system is highly discriminatory, and that it isn't working.

It tells you nothing of the sort because it is common knowledge that prison is harmful to mental health. It’s like saying that the Armed Forces recruits too many vulnerable mentally ill people because they have higher rates of suicide and PTSD than the civilian population. Prison causes mental illness just like serving in a military causes mental illness. You have no idea how many convicts were perfectly fine before being caged up and subjected to prison life.

Well yes I do because I research this stuff.

What your post tells me is that you talk out of your arse - along with the majority of posters, to be fair.

@Roussette

So of course, there has now been a surge in executions. Trump hasn’t done anything to stop it, but similarly this isn’t really his doing either

That's a different way of looking at it!
Never have there been executions during the post election transition period. Until Trump came along. He's been a long time vocal advocate of the practice. Let's not forget he wanted 5 innocent teenagers executed and took out adverts calling for that.

Never have there been executions during the post election transition period.

Thats only federal executions, but State executions definitely have continued during every presidential transition. During the transition from Obama to Trump there were 5 executions:
16 Nov 16 Steven Spears
6 Dec 16 William Sallie
8 Dec 16 Ronald Smith
11 Jan 17 Christopher Wilkins
18 Jan 17 Ricky Gray

@Miramour
If you research “this stuff” then perhaps should be more accurate in what you say. The existence of mental illness in prison does not “prove” that the US justice system is “highly discriminatory and isn’t working.”
You’ve not shown any causal link whatsoever.

@TatianaBis

You will certainly discredit yourself if you don’t differentiate between federal and state executions.

I did distinguish between state and federal executions from the first post where I brought them up. Why not read the whole fucking thread before making snide comments.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Miramour
If you research “this stuff” then perhaps should be more accurate in what you say. The existence of mental illness in prison does not “prove” that the US justice system is “highly discriminatory and isn’t working.”
You’ve not shown any causal link whatsoever.[/quote]
Could you be more peevish? Why the superiority attitude? Why so rude? And who are you to instruct me how I "should" post. You are coming across very poorly.

@Bluntness100
This is really misleading, as these were all state executions, not federal ones. Lisa Was a federal execution, None of those presidents ordered a woman to be executed, only trump. There hasn’t been a federal execution of a woman since the fifties. State executions are very different and ordered by the state, not the president.

No. It’s not misleading because in my post I clearly stated these were all US executions. These are both state AND federal executions. The point I was making is that federal executions are only 14 out of 1,530 executions in the US since 1973. Furthermore, that other women have indeed been executed recently in the US.

However, you are being misleading. Trump did not “order” anyone’s death. Lisa Montgomery was tried by judge and jury in a federal court in Missouri and sentenced to death in 2008. And state executions are not that different, it just means you broke a state law instead of a federal law. It’s still a judge and jury in a court. Federal courts are only used if the crime falls under federal law instead of state law, and Lisa Montgomery was charged with “kidnapping that results in death” a federal law, not a state law.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the three judges that lifted her stay of execution in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit,

Thats only federal executions

I know. That's I was referring to

@Miramour
Why so rude? Well I tend not to react pleasantly to someone whose just told me that I’m “talking out my arse”

Superiority? Er, you’re the one saying you’re a big researcher and know better. I’m just asking you to back up your extraordinary claims with some of your research.

[quote PlanDeRaccordement]@Miramour
Why so rude? Well I tend not to react pleasantly to someone whose just told me that I’m “talking out my arse”

Superiority? Er, you’re the one saying you’re a big researcher and know better. I’m just asking you to back up your extraordinary claims with some of your research.[/quote]
Calm down.

It's because I know if my child were murdered I would wish the worst I can think of on the killer that I don't want sentences to be determined by victims. If someone murdered my babies I would want them to die horribly, I would want all sorts of things- but it would not be right for the state to allow me to have any say in it.

Exactly!

I would be the same - f someone I loved was hurt, then no torture would be too bad to inflct upon the perpetrator.

THAT'S why we have the law, divorced from emotions, and judges and juries who make the decisions on guilt/innocence and sentencing for us.

Revenge isn't the right motivation. It begets more resentment and further avenge. As Gandhi said - "An eye for an eye and the whole world is blind."

THAT'S why we have the law, divorced from emotions, and judges and juries who make the decisions on guilt/innocence and sentencing for us.

It's only one "law" though. Sharia law exists, for example. And that's pretty victim centric.

And our "law" evolved from Saxon law, where victims families were allowed to exact justice. However there was a very clearly defined price list.

I'd be interested as to whether the majority of people (who don't support capital punishment) would favour more consistent if slightly less harsh sentences. Or if they'd be happy with a much more random approach to sentencing with the possibility of harsher penalties ?

Obviously if you support capital punishment you're already comfortable with innocent people being executed which couldn't be a better example of arbitrary harsh justice.

It's because I know if my child were murdered I would wish the worst I can think of on the killer that I don't want sentences to be determined by victims. If someone murdered my babies I would want them to die horribly, I would want all sorts of things- but it would not be right for the state to allow me to have any say in it.

I agree. The way the law operates cannot be based on my primitive revenge instincts.

@Arobase

It's because I know if my child were murdered I would wish the worst I can think of on the killer that I don't want sentences to be determined by victims. If someone murdered my babies I would want them to die horribly, I would want all sorts of things- but it would not be right for the state to allow me to have any say in it.

I agree. The way the law operates cannot be based on my primitive revenge instincts.

Why not ? If that's the will of the people ? Why not ?

After the last few years the phrase “the will of the people” doesn’t make me feel comfortable when it is used to justify any political argument, much less when it denotes who lives or dies.

@SinisterBumFacedCat

After the last few years the phrase “the will of the people” doesn’t make me feel comfortable when it is used to justify any political argument, much less when it denotes who lives or dies.

Me too. But that's already being lined up as the reason we need to start stringing people up again.

I'm sure it's also the will of more people that Amazon and Google pay their fair share of tax. But I know which would happen first.

"Ms. Shaughnessy told an investigator that Lisa’s first words were, “Don’t spank me. It hurts.”"

This makes me stomach twist and turn. That poor child that was just repeatedly let down.

What she did was inexcusable but she needed psychiatric help and therapy.

@TarnishedSilver

The crime she committed was truly awful. I do not agree with the death penalty for any crime but I think in this case like many others, death was probably a relief to her, rather than a punishment - what a life she had.

This so much. After reading about her life and the extraordinary abuse and trauma she'd suffered I felt a little bit as though somehow death would be the better outcome, a lifetime on death row or psychiatric prison would not have been any life for her, image the demons in her head. I hope she's at peace now at last.

You can try offer empty platitudes if it makes you feel better, but when Montgomery was told that she was due to be executed in December she had a panic attack, according to her attorney.

I do not see how being put to death can be anything but the greatest trauma any human could inflict on another. In this case following a lifetime of trauma.

Where there’s life there’s hope - there’s treatment, there’s rehabilitation.
Where there is death - there is nothing.

I do not see how being put to death can be anything but the greatest trauma any human could inflict on another.

Agree, but how you die does matter.
Lisa was told weeks beforehand so she had time to have a panic attack and mentally prepare. She had an opportunity to write final letters and see loved ones. She chose to have no final words at her execution. And she was then put to sleep peacefully and then her heart was stopped.

That’s a much better death than the one she gave her victim Bobbie Jo Stinnet. Bobbie was in her kitchen 8 months pregnant expecting a visit from a friend, Lisa, who loved dogs as much as she. This friend then threw a rope around her neck and strangled her into unconsciousness. As she’s lying there on her kitchen floor, Lisa carves open her belly with a knife and starts a c-section. C-sections involve taking out a few organs and putting them on you abdomen, intestines, and so on. So it’s not pretty. Bobbie is awakened by the agony and fights back, they found some of Lisa’s hair in her fist. But Lisa finishes her off with the rope and then finishes cutting Bobbies baby daughter out of her womb. Lisa then leaves Bobbie in a pool of blood to die. Bobbies mum finds her and calls 999 saying that her daughters stomach had exploded. That’s how messy it was. Bobbie had no warning. Bobbie never got to have a panic attack. She never got to say good bye or meet her unborn daughter. She was put to death by Lisa and it was a far worse death than Lisa got. Lisa even got to live another 16years after committing this crime. More than half the life Bobbie got.

@JustAnotherUserinParadise

This lady's life was a real lesson in knowing the full story - I read the headline and one-paragraph summary and thought "wow that evil woman to do such a thing - maybe she deserves it". Then read the full article about her life, with the bits by her sister, and just felt so so sorry for her, she was literally failed by every single person who should have cared for her. It's hardly surprising she was so messed up.

Nearly all murderers claim they have been abused/ had a terrible childhood? Where do you draw the line?

Hindley claimed to have been badly beaten as a child, does that excuse her?

Rose West had learning difficulties and was sexually and physically abused all through her childhood. Does that excuse her?

BTW, I am against the death penalty.