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Lisa Montgomery executed

566 replies

PegasusReturns · 13/01/2021 08:17

Lisa Montgomery was executed yesterday - I don’t know how this amounts to justice in 2021. What an appalling tragedy her life and death was.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55642177

OP posts:
Russellbrandshair · 14/01/2021 16:28

@Hazelnutlatteplease

Look into most offenders you will find many abuse victims and mental health sufferers, Male and female. Justice isn't always happy or comfortable
I agree. Male offenders who commit brutal rapes and murders also have a higher proportion of childhood abuse and neglect than the general population. Just because she is a woman doesnt mean its more "understandable".

The whole thing is awful but I cant help feeling that its grossly unfair that the victims or their families rarely get mentioned in cases like these. They have a life sentence too.

TatianaBis · 14/01/2021 16:28

@unmarkedbythat

16 years they had, they simply couldn’t prove it enough for anyone to take it seriously.

I think it's quite sweet, the level of naive faith in the US justice system that assumes the reason they would not be taken seriously is because there was insufficient evidence to support their argument.

You call it sweet I call it staggering.
PlanDeRaccordement · 14/01/2021 16:31

the judge decided to go with the team who described her as “malingering“ and who quoted her mother’s belief that she was a “willing” partner in her sexual abuse.

On what basis? Did they say that in their judgement summary? Because I find that hard to believe. It is more likely that they accepted that Lisa Montgomery had a horrific childhood but that it did not sufficiently mitigate a long term, carefully planned and executed murder plot. A murder that was so inhuman and brutal in execution that not even slaughtered animals are subjected to it.

jellybeans · 14/01/2021 16:42

I've just read a post by Bobbie Jo's brother. He states he was there at the execution. He has also posted a comment stating he believes Lisa's then husband, Kevin Montgomery must have known re her fake pregnancy. So many questions but it does seem the family feel some closure now.

Roussette · 14/01/2021 16:42

So of course, there has now been a surge in executions. Trump hasn’t done anything to stop it, but similarly this isn’t really his doing either

That's a different way of looking at it!
Never have there been executions during the post election transition period. Until Trump came along. He's been a long time vocal advocate of the practice. Let's not forget he wanted 5 innocent teenagers executed and took out adverts calling for that.

DGRossetti · 14/01/2021 16:44

Never have there been executions during the post election transition period. Until Trump came along.

Lots of things were different before Trump came along.

Roussette · 14/01/2021 16:46

Indeedy DGR

TatianaBis · 14/01/2021 16:53

@PlanDeRaccordement

the judge decided to go with the team who described her as “malingering“ and who quoted her mother’s belief that she was a “willing” partner in her sexual abuse.

On what basis? Did they say that in their judgement summary? Because I find that hard to believe. It is more likely that they accepted that Lisa Montgomery had a horrific childhood but that it did not sufficiently mitigate a long term, carefully planned and executed murder plot. A murder that was so inhuman and brutal in execution that not even slaughtered animals are subjected to it.

The outcome of the first phase of the trial (which is the “guilt phase“) - 11 days of testimony relating to the offence and the defence of “not guilty by reason of insanity”- was that the judge and jury apparently preferred the views of the prosecution psychiatrists. The team claimed that Montgomery did not suffer from a delusional belief that she was pregnant, and made the comments I quoted above.
SchadenfreudePersonified · 14/01/2021 16:53

I've just read a post by Bobbie Jo's brother. He states he was there at the execution.

This to my mind is a terrible thing. Any execution is horrific and I am totally against the death penalty, but it is compounded when there is an audience.

As I understand it, the victims family has an automatic right to attend. Other people can also apply to go and watch. I can recall reading (possibly a Bill Bryson essay on America's prison system) that there is a waiting list for people who want to watch someone being killed.

A f*cking WAITING LIST!

Don't try to tell me that this is ok.

Because it isn't.

Bluntness100 · 14/01/2021 16:54

@TatianaBis

The thing is her defense team also tried to mount a defense saying she didn’t do it, her brother did. When he clearly didn’t

Which simply shows how poor her defence team were.

Yes, you could argue that. Or you could argue they were grasping at straws when dealin with a clearly guilty woman. DNA all over the shop, sitting holding the baby. ISP addressee traced back to her, fake identity she’d been using confirmed

You either claim it wasn’t her or you claim she wasn’t of sound mind. There is no other defence.

As said, though. It’s hard when someone fakes an identity for months, befriends someone,to do this, gains their trust, teaches themselves to give a c section and then drives two hundred miles to do it, at the last possible moment to give the kid the best chance, then carries out a brutal murder, performs a c section, when the woman was still alive. Then drives 200 miles back home, cares for the baby, is found the next day, and lies it wasn’t her.

DGRossetti · 14/01/2021 16:59

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I've just read a post by Bobbie Jo's brother. He states he was there at the execution.

This to my mind is a terrible thing. Any execution is horrific and I am totally against the death penalty, but it is compounded when there is an audience.

As I understand it, the victims family has an automatic right to attend. Other people can also apply to go and watch. I can recall reading (possibly a Bill Bryson essay on America's prison system) that there is a waiting list for people who want to watch someone being killed.

A f*cking WAITING LIST!

Don't try to tell me that this is ok.

Because it isn't.

Why is it not OK ? At least it's honest.

If you have to make executions private because you are upset at the scenes of the mob (as I posted Dicken's experiences upthread) then maybe, just maybe, you should be asking yourself: "Is killing people under the guise of justice a good thing ?". And that's before you consider whether it's OK to execute innocent people, as proponents of capital punishment insist it is.

Anyone with a strong stomach should read of Saudi (the US' bestest bigliest friend in the whole world) executions. Plastic sheets, baying crowd, executioner pokes them in the back to create a twitch that brings the neck up for the perfect slice.

It's the punishment that is barbaric. Not the method.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 14/01/2021 17:05

Why?

I honestly think that anyone who wants to see someone killed has something wrong with them (I can understand the compulsion with family members - they can't think clearly because emotions are so high).

It is sickening!

something2say · 14/01/2021 17:06

Respecting everyone's knowledge on this thread.

Would like to add...

I've worked in this field for a long time now and have seen a few really bad cases like this, where serious and consistent fucked uppery is present in the life of a child causing severe disturbance in their understanding of what's normal, let alone tolerating and doing what's normal. I don't always believe they have MH conditions, but they have been fucked up.

Sometimes it does cause for example schizophrenia. Too many of the people in MH hospitals and care homes were seriously abused for it not to be relevant, imv. Sometimes there's only so much a person can take before they change.

But sometimes it is the behaviour of the individual, their way of relating to people, how manipulative they are, how the trauma affects them etc that is what you see. She may not have had a diagnosable condition and the fallout may not have been immediately obvious, but how could you go thro her childhood and then plan and commit an act like that without something being wrong?

In this case I dont feel able to disconnect the woman and her crimes from the crimes against her, and it is obvious to me that, even tho we may not observe muddled thinking or psychosis (especially not in a safe environment) there would have been fallout evident in her behaviour due to the abuse perpetrated against her. And there was. Was she mentally ill? Something was going to be wrong wasn't it, after all that! It's not rocket science.

As a survivor of abuse myself, thinking this thro when I first worked in criminal justice just gave me extra impetus to sort myself out so I dont do the types things that were done to me. It makes me sad to see so glaring an example of an abuse victim that passed it on down. We have to do more for people who have suffered, for ourselves as much as them.

Bluntness100 · 14/01/2021 17:09

@PlanDeRaccordement

US Women executed Clinton 1st term from 1993-1996: 0 Clinton 2nd term from 1997-2000: 4 Bush Jr 1st term from 2001-2004: 5 Bush Jr 2nd term from 2005-2008: 1 Obama’s 1st term from 2009-2012: 1 Obama’s 2nd term from 2013-2016: 4 Trump’s term from 2017-Jan 2021: 1 (Lisa Montgomery)
This is really misleading, as these were all state executions, not federal ones. Lisa Was a federal execution, None of those presidents ordered a woman to be executed, only trump.

There hasn’t been a federal execution of a woman since the fifties. State executions are very different and ordered by the state, not the president.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/01/2021 17:15

Of the 1,530 US executions (since 1973) only 14 have been federal executions. Arguing over 14 executions since 1973 seems to me now to be ignoring the mountain to focus on a molehill

Ah, but it enables a handy (if inaccurate) headline about Trump, which seems to be the important thing

And no, I can't stand him either, but if we're going to dislike him let's at least do it on the basis of facts

DGRossetti · 14/01/2021 17:15

And no, I can't stand him either, but if we're going to dislike him let's at least do it on the basis of facts

because he - and his supporters - would do the same for you ....

Roussette · 14/01/2021 17:17

Really great and informative post something2say

TatianaBis · 14/01/2021 17:23

Yes, you could argue that. Or you could argue they were grasping at straws when dealin with a clearly guilty woman. DNA all over the shop, sitting holding the baby. ISP addressee traced back to her, fake identity she’d been using confirmed

A good defence team wouldn’t be grasping at straws, that’s the point. They would simply mount a credible and thorough defence based on her poor mental health and appalling personal history. She confessed to the crime herself.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/01/2021 17:25

State executions are very different and ordered by the state, not the president

Quite right, Bluntness, but many don't know that or don't bother to find out
They just see that the US executes hundreds of people, read a headline that says Trump's authorised the most and assume he's responsible for hundreds more, whereas actually it's eleven out of 48 carried out since 1927

www.bop.gov/about/history/federal_executions.jsp

Bluntness100 · 14/01/2021 17:25

Actually I can see the issue with trump on this one. He’s had a woman executed. Whomever she was there was going to be an outcry and her defence would always claim mental health and abuse. For every single one.

It’s the first time a president has had a woman executed in about seventy years. No matter who she was there was always going to be this outcry. Becayse it’s trump. The state executions that have occured under every other president of women, no one even hears about.

CoronaIsShit · 14/01/2021 17:28

The only tragedy here is that a young woman was horrifically murdered and her daughter’s life will be forever blighted by the barbaric way she came into the world. I can’t imagine the impact this will have on her when she’s older and understands more, when she has her own childrenSad.

I for one am glad this woman has exited this world. Her life was ended much more humanely and painlessly than the way she ended the life of her victim.

We only have her and her family members accounts of her childhood which would obviously have been embellished by her defence team. If there was enough mitigating evidence, it would have been used and anyway it is absolutely no excuse. She seems to have been able to operate in the world and raise a family herself (4 children).

This was not a situation where someone with MH issues snapped and had a breakdown. This was a calculated plot to murder an innocent young woman and commit an atrocious act on her body and her child.

I believe the death penalty serves a purpose in cases like this. Rehabilitation is not possible after committing a crime like this IMO. Why keep them locked up for the rest of their lives? More humane to put them out of their misery and some small comfort to the victim’s family that their murderer is not getting any small enjoyment out of life that they robbed their victim of.

TatianaBis · 14/01/2021 17:28

[quote Puzzledandpissedoff]State executions are very different and ordered by the state, not the president

Quite right, Bluntness, but many don't know that or don't bother to find out
They just see that the US executes hundreds of people, read a headline that says Trump's authorised the most and assume he's responsible for hundreds more, whereas actually it's eleven out of 48 carried out since 1927

www.bop.gov/about/history/federal_executions.jsp[/quote]
I posted about the distinction on the previous page.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/01/2021 17:30

If we're going to dislike him let's at least do it on the basis of facts
Because he - and his supporters - would do the same for you ....

Doubt it, DGRossetti, but then they'd never get the chance since even I'm not stupid enough to move in those circles ... I've had enough of a gutful of dealing with UK politicians without starting on the US version

Puzzledandpissedoff · 14/01/2021 17:32

I posted about the distinction on the previous page

Apologies, Tatiana, I missed your post
To be clear though, I wasn't writing just about posters on here, but more generally - especially where folk trust trash media for their information

Jaypreen · 14/01/2021 17:58

@Roussette

Oh purleeeeease.... you can honestly put Breitbart in the same category as the Guardian on right and left? Laughable.

OK, here's another one for you... I feel quite grubby clicking on it. DailyMail.

Headlines...
Private executioners paid cash, lethal drugs from a secret pharmacy and middle-of-the-night executions: How Trump and Barr have used their final days to put to death the most federal prisoners since WW2

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9086651/Trump-using-final-days-execute-federal-prisoners-WWII.html

Hope that suits better....😂

The rag that gave us : the islamist gloating over the 7/7 terrorist attacks. The how and why all those women sexually assaulted in Cologne on NYE a few years ago had it coming because they had expensive smartphones on them. etc etc

Yes I believe I can