Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Lisa Montgomery executed

566 replies

PegasusReturns · 13/01/2021 08:17

Lisa Montgomery was executed yesterday - I don’t know how this amounts to justice in 2021. What an appalling tragedy her life and death was.

www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55642177

OP posts:
blueangel19 · 13/01/2021 13:42

One of the many good things about Mr Trump not being President after next week is there will be no-one else treated as such.

Where was Biden in the last 47 years?

VinterKvinna · 13/01/2021 13:46

Disgusting she never got the help she needed.

Agree it was a despicable crime she committed, but she was failed by the system.

VinterKvinna · 13/01/2021 13:46

@blueangel19

One of the many good things about Mr Trump not being President after next week is there will be no-one else treated as such.

Where was Biden in the last 47 years?

erm, not being the President?
GrolliffetheDragon · 13/01/2021 13:48

^Yes she had a horrific childhood. That is true.
But many people suffer horrific childhood abuse and don't commit such a horrific crime as she did.^

FGS. This is true of absolutely everything. Not everyone with mental health problems ends up in prison, but a high proportion of prisoners have mental health problems. Same for care leavers.

Not all people who experience a traumatic event develop PTSD, but there's clearly a link and thankfully it's not seen as a moral failing anymore.

The fact that not everybody with x experience ends up doing y means nothing. Not all victims of abuse self harm, have eating disorders and 'misuse substances', I did all three, surely nobody is going to argue that there was no link just because others in my situation may have acted differently? Do you want to argue that I made the choice to act in those ways? Because yes, I suppose I did, but they were choices made from pain and trauma when I was blind to alternative options and not exactly rational or sensible.

I say this so often. It's not an excuse, but it is a reason, and in a caring compassionate, society there would be room for compassion for what she went through as a child and understanding of how that affected her. Trauma from a young age changes how the brain develops. There has been so much work done on ACEs (Adverse Childhood Experiences) and one thing that comes out of that is that having just one supportive and trustworthy adult in your life can lead to a huge difference in outcomes. She clearly had nobody.

DGRossetti · 13/01/2021 13:49

@blueangel19

One of the many good things about Mr Trump not being President after next week is there will be no-one else treated as such.

Where was Biden in the last 47 years?

www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/08/01/you-owe-them-an-apology-gabbards-attack-highlights-harriss-complex-death-penalty-record/

is interesting.

OrraBoralis · 13/01/2021 13:52

@ blueangel19 you seem to be a Trump supporter and a Obama Hater. Can you take a look at how the Obamas work with the population as opposed to how the Trumps do it

PolloDePrimavera · 13/01/2021 13:54

@JerichosPenisInADeadChickHat

"I'm not entirely anti the death penalty and would have supported it in very few cases (Ian Huntley, Peter Sutcliffe, Hindley and Brady etc)"

So because the newspapers sensationalised something for you, bring on the death penalty? Ridiculous.

Absolutely. Silly me.
YouBoughtMeAWall · 13/01/2021 13:54

Another lovelybitofSquirrel .Completely agree with you there.There have been many people badly abused by their families, and let down by the System . They are not a collective bunch of people who can commit heinous crimes and get away Scot free FFS!

Are you posting on the wrong thread by mistake? I can’t see where anyone has said this woman should have gotten away Scot free.

knittingaddict · 13/01/2021 13:55

@blueangel19

One of the many good things about Mr Trump not being President after next week is there will be no-one else treated as such.

Where was Biden in the last 47 years?

Well that has to be one of the most obscure "whatabouts" that I've ever read.
Bluntness100 · 13/01/2021 13:57

It is interesting though, because her crime was so premeditated

Apparantly she had been sterilised and was claiming she was pregnant as part of a custody battle, so effectively wished a child to prove her lie. She friended this lady and pretended to be pregnant herself to gain the woman’s trust.. She then arranged to meet her under the guise of buying a dog, had researched c sections and she was able to not just murder the woman, but to perform a c section on her snd the child survived, in fact she wasn’t found till the next day where Montgomery was sitting feeding her.

Part of me says, that’s quite elaborate. I fully accept she was ill, likely insane snd not rational , but you need a level of intelligence to be able to actually do what she did. From coming up with a strategy to win the custody battle, through to planning the friendship, maintaining her pregnancy lies, and then luring the woman to be able to meet with her unsuspecting then to murder snd deliver the baby on her own by c section.

GrolliffetheDragon · 13/01/2021 13:57

Most abused children certainly don't commit crimes on that scale. It should be acknowledged, though, that while all abuse of children is terrible in the extreme, the extent to which Lisa Montgomery was abused was greater than that of the vast, vast majority of abused children. And it feels wrong to try and quantify child abuse but while some survivors of abuse, if given the right help, can go on to leave happy, fulfilling, well balanced lives, Lisa Montgomery never had a fucking chance.

Agree with this. Except she did have a chance because there were so many times where there was the possibility of intervention. That makes me so angry, the number of people who knew and did nothing, absolutely nothing, to rescue a child from such appalling abuse. They didn't even try.

What would have been a far more likely- probable, really- scenario would have been for her to abuse her own children, which is much, much more common outcome. And then everyone would be reserving their sympathy for her children. Until her children grew up and did the same thing to their children, at which point some people on here would be braying for their deaths.

It's sickening how upset people get a the death of some beautiful, angelic looking child while not giving a shit about what happens to the abused, neglected children who don't die and grow up to do awful things themselves. Real life is messy and difficult and complicated, easier to get upset about a photograph in the paper, blame some social workers for not intervening and move on.

MedusaElectronica · 13/01/2021 14:03

She had actual physical brain damage as a result of abuse.

As well as deep and complex emotional and psychological damage, and severe mental illness.

No, not all abused children grow up to be murderers or abusers.

But it isn't their fault if they cannot overcome physical brain damage and the other scars of their life.

Justcallmecaptainobvious · 13/01/2021 14:04

@peak2021

One of the many good things about Mr Trump not being President after next week is there will be no-one else treated as such.
Whilst it’s Trump’s presidency which has allowed federal executions to resume, and has carried them out at an extraordinary pace, let’s not fool ourselves by laying all the blame at his feet. The death penalty is at the core of the justice system in many states. 10 federal executions in 2020 was shocking, but there were 22 state executions in 2019.
Awwlookatmybabyspider · 13/01/2021 14:06

@blueangel19. “You seem to be Trump supporter.”

Well that’s her prerogative plenty of people are Trump supporters.

Bluntness100 · 13/01/2021 14:07

@MedusaElectronica

She had actual physical brain damage as a result of abuse.

As well as deep and complex emotional and psychological damage, and severe mental illness.

No, not all abused children grow up to be murderers or abusers.

But it isn't their fault if they cannot overcome physical brain damage and the other scars of their life.

Yes, that’s what her defense is saying, my point is that was a complex premeditated action over weeks and months she took. Her team are saying she had significant learning disabilities. But how severe could they have been to habe the intelligence to do what she did over that period of time.

I totally but the mental disorders, mental illness, I am beyond sure she was very very ill. I am not sure though how severe her learning difficulties were for her to be able to do what she did, from the lying to win her custody battle, through to befriending and faking pregnancy, to researching and then carrying out a c section on her own.

You need a level of intelligence to do that.

blueangel19 · 13/01/2021 14:07

all OrraBoralis

In my humble opinion politicians are all the same. Liars and not do not much.

The issues we are discussing here have passed Republicans and Democrats.

Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 13/01/2021 14:11

Yes, that’s what her defense is saying, my point is that was a complex premeditated action over weeks and months she took. Her team are saying she had significant learning disabilities. But how severe could they have been to habe the intelligence to do what she did over that period of time.

I totally but the mental disorders, mental illness, I am beyond sure she was very very ill. I am not sure though how severe her learning difficulties were for her to be able to do what she did, from the lying to win her custody battle, through to befriending and faking pregnancy, to researching and then carrying out a c section on her own.

You need a level of intelligence to do that.

Absolutely. She knew full well what she was doing.

GrolliffetheDragon · 13/01/2021 14:16

Yes, that’s what her defense is saying, my point is that was a complex premeditated action over weeks and months she took. Her team are saying she had significant learning disabilities. But how severe could they have been to habe the intelligence to do what she did over that period of time.

Surely it depends on the areas of her brain that are damaged.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 13/01/2021 14:19

Plenty of people are abused and have bad childhoods but don’t go on to murder.

It’s all very well feeling sorry for her now she’s dead. However I hope and trust there is a lot more sympathy for her victims family. Also a different case but for example Pearl Fernandez who murdered or participated in the murder of her son was only spared the Death Penalty becomes she shat herself and took a plea deal. Another example of someone who like Lisa was also failed and had a horrible upbringing.
Would have felt sorry for her too if she’d have been popped off, I damn well hope not.
It amazes me how death seems to turn people in to Saints.

I am saddened though that she was denied a prayer before her death.

I don’t think it’s anyones place to prevent someone from making their peace with their maker whatever they have done.

MedusaElectronica · 13/01/2021 14:21

My Dad is actually no less intelligent since he incurred brain damage, but his boundaries, his emotional control, his judgement, understanding and his personality have all changed.

I don't think we can sit here and diagnose the detailed effect of delusion (which often endures over months if not years) , brain damage etc.

The U.S has a grubby history of executing young people (god - have you seen the old video of that 1 year old boy being electrocuted?) and people with learning disabilities and mental health issues.

I don't think she was a 'good' person. I wouldn't want her anywhere near a family member of mine, or out on the community. But executing someone with brain damage and mental illness?

No.

Pointless brutality. What does it achieve?

Roussette · 13/01/2021 14:23

It's hard to comprehend what she endured from 3 years old. She had bipolar, PTSD, disassociation, anxiety, psychosis, memory loss and depression.

She would have spent the rest of her life in prison or a mental institution but no, she was executed by the country that failed her.

MedusaElectronica · 13/01/2021 14:26

@Awwlookatmybabyspider

Plenty of people are abused and have bad childhoods but don’t go on to murder. It’s all very well feeling sorry for her now she’s dead. However I hope and trust there is a lot more sympathy for her victims family. Also a different case but for example Pearl Fernandez who murdered or participated in the murder of her son was only spared the Death Penalty becomes she shat herself and took a plea deal. Another example of someone who like Lisa was also failed and had a horrible upbringing. Would have felt sorry for her too if she’d have been popped off, I damn well hope not. It amazes me how death seems to turn people in to Saints. I am saddened though that she was denied a prayer before her death. I don’t think it’s anyones place to prevent someone from making their peace with their maker whatever they have done.
Don't be ridiculous - no one on this thread has said she was a saint. She was clearly a dangerous woman. It is how we deal with the cause of her being dangerous that is the subject of this thread, in the most part.

No one on this thread has implicated that their unease with executing someone with brain damage and serious mental illness in any way reduces either their horror of the crime or their sympathy with the victims.

You want a degree of mercy that allows her to 'make peace' with 'her maker' but you don't have the empathy to see how hard it might be for anyone who has never been shown anything but hate and brutality to learn to live with love and kindness? For someone with a damaged mind to behave like you?

YouBoughtMeAWall · 13/01/2021 14:27

The U.S has a grubby history of executing young people (god - have you seen the old video of that 1 year old boy being electrocuted?

What??

MedusaElectronica · 13/01/2021 14:28

Awwwlook - it is possible to feel utmost sympathy for a victim, utmost revulsion at a crime but still have some perspective on how that crime might have come to have happened.

IVFNewbie · 13/01/2021 14:28

Tragic story all round but I think justice has been done.