Can anyone explain flashing to me?

[Shinylikeglass]

I run in our local woods, often on my own, there's no peace like it.

From time to time, running friends, will warn lone female runners that a flasher is operating in them there woods. TBH, I'm never sure if it's actually true and whilst I agree it's off and probably traumatic in the moment to come across a flasher, I'm not sure what's so dangerous that I should stop doing the thing I love most in the world, just in case I come across him?

Or does "flasher" mean something other than just showing off his bits?

When I was working late on my own in the office a staff member came in and stood right behind me and was openly masturbating himself. Even though I had a phone on my desk I froze and couldn't call for help.
When I reported it to management next day was told it wasn't personal and was an isolated incident. Not true. Often glimpsed him just out of sight watching me and rubbing himself. Also later found several other women in the company had trouble with him, to the extent they'd cover the internal office windows to prevent them being overlooked.

I don't dispute at all that it must be a very frightening and distressing experience and of course they must be reported, but I'm not sure that the threat to me is significant enough to warrant changing my behaviour.

Like a PP, I do wonder why some women (and it is women) are so keen to issue these warnings, especially when they usually seem to have heard of the threat third hand.

Is flashing really that common? I've managed to live to 50, 20 of those years running regularly in these woods, which are apparently rife for it and never experienced it.

@user1471565182

Flashers often move on to much worse stuff and that will probably be his offending area

This.

Indecent exposure is a starter’s sexual offence and offenders often escalate.

Just be careful.

Twice. the first time I was eight or nine on the common with a friend, and it was a soldier in the bushes. We thought it was hilarious, and decided he had a bullet in it and was trying to shake it out. The second time I was 14 or 15 and was walking home from school. He was a smart looking middle-aged man waiting at the bus-stop; it was a busy area, so I wasn't frightened, but felt ashamed. Never told anyone.

I don't dispute at all that it must be a very frightening and distressing experience and of course they must be reported, but I'm not sure that the threat to me is significant enough to warrant changing my behaviour.

Okay. But some women would feel the threat was enough to make a point of avoiding a flasher.

Like a PP, I do wonder why some women (and it is women) are so keen to issue these warnings, especially when they usually seem to have heard of the threat third hand

Because we don’t want to be flashed at, and think other women might not like it either. So we warn other women, who can then decide for themselves what they want to do.

Is flashing really that common? I've managed to live to 50, 20 of those years running regularly in these woods, which are apparently rife for it and never experienced it.

Younger than you, been flashed at more than once. It’s horrible. Luckily I didn’t see the one who appeared in an isolated area near my school occasionally, we all giggled and thought it was funny until a year 10 girl got raped by a man there. I don’t know if he was the same flasher or not, but it was horrific. It’s shit that its up to us to protect ourselves rather than have these horrible men stop doing it, but I still appreciate the warning.

I dont think people see it as passing on a rumour, its about warning your friends that there is a weirdo around.

I would pass it on too if I thought my friends might be at risk. It's just about being more vigilant. Just like if you know theres been a lot of car thefts you double check you've locked yours at night.

As for evidence I'm not sure I would get my phone out and take a photo. What if he tried to get my phone.

I've been flashed more times than I can remember. There is a man who was frequently found to be masturbating in the park near my house. There is a well known flasher who walks around the nearby marshes where I walk my dogs. I've been flashed on Tottenham court road late at night. I could go on.

@Shinylikeglass

I don't dispute at all that it must be a very frightening and distressing experience and of course they must be reported, but I'm not sure that the threat to me is significant enough to warrant changing my behaviour.

Like a PP, I do wonder why some women (and it is women) are so keen to issue these warnings, especially when they usually seem to have heard of the threat third hand.

Is flashing really that common? I've managed to live to 50, 20 of those years running regularly in these woods, which are apparently rife for it and never experienced it.

Then surely you can choose not to change your behaviour of you don’t think this is threatening or worrisome.

But if you HAD been flashed at I am sure you would feel very different.

I was 13; I felt scared, vulnerable and guilty, as if it was my fault somehow. I had to change my route home from school, on the advice of the police.

I hated everything about it, and nobody at 13 needs to see that, and feel that.

I dont think people see it as passing on a rumour, its about warning your friends that there is a weirdo around.

Indeed. But the move from rumour to 'fact' is right there in your explanation. Warning friends that there is a weirdo about. But is there? Do they really know that, or have reasonable evidence that it is likely to be the case? Or are they, in fact, just passing on a rumour?

Yes, flashers exist and experiencing one can be distressing. It is also the case that a lot of people are inherently weird about woods. And that a lot of men are very keen to use stories of bogeymen to control women's behaviour and curtail their freedom. Many more will pass on the same scare stories without thought, because their freedoms are not being curtailed. Many women have grown up with this, have internalised the fear and self-limiting behaviour and regard it as normal.

I'm not advocating risky behaviour or minimising people's horrible experiences. I am saying that you have to do your own risk assessment, based on what you actually know and believe to be true.

As a member of a women's running group in the 90's, running in Windsor Great Park, we would occasionally hear that there was a flasher active. It felt great to know that as a group of twenty or so women, we had nothing to fear.

Girl power.

@Shinylikeglass

Your last post is both grim and offensive. By your own admission you’ve never experienced it yet belittle the woman who want to warn others.

Perhaps because the term “flashing” is deliberate coy and minimising. Suggestive of something you witness rather than experience, a jokey prank of sorts? Of course the reality is often different: masturbating, deliberate eye contact, encroachment on your space, a clear reinforcement of your vulnerability.

Many women find this frightening. Both the experience itself: it is sexual abuse, but also the way in which we react. We’re taught to “laugh it off” make a pithy remark about their penis size, howl with laughter.

The reality, when confined in a quiet spot, with no means of escape by a man who could physically overpower you in an instant, when you have no idea of their intentions (does he just want to scare you or if he going to rape you) is for many terrifying. We don’t holler and whoop. We freeze, we cry, we shake.

Like a PP, I do wonder why some women (and it is women) are so keen to issue these warnings, especially when they usually seem to have heard of the threat third hand.

Simply because forewarned is forearmed. Some women might choose to change their route or carry an alarm or whatever. Others might just prefer not to be completely taken aback - if you know a bloke loitering in the woods might be about to expose himself you won't be as shocked if it happens.

@lottiegarbanzo

First, ask these people for their evidence.

If it's all rumour and hearsay, I might ask them to have a think about why they are so keen to pass on gossip, in the service of curtailing women's freedom. (I would certainly be thinking this and it might change my opinion of the gossiping person).

Woods. People are completely loopy about woods. Many, many people have a deeply embedded, irrational fear about terrible things lurking deep in the woods.

That deep, irrational fear means that people are much more likely to believe scary rumours about bad things happening in woods. They view these rumours are merely confirming their latent suspicions.

I have found, as a runner, that a lot of people are horrified at the idea of a woman running alone in woods, at all, ever.

So, weigh the evidence for yourself. Make your own decisions about acceptable risks vs benefits.

Exactly this. There was a thread some time ago by a poster whose student daughter was cramming for an exam and went out for the same walk in a rural area each morning to relax, and you’d think she was blindfold tightrope walking across the Grand Canyon from some of the responses.

The police take it seriously because this type of behaviour can escalate
These men get a power trip by flashing until they don’t and have to something more to get that ‘high’.

It can escalate to assault and rape

Should be reported to the police each and every time

So, weigh the evidence for yourself. Make your own decisions about acceptable risks vs benefits

Yes - but surely part of that evidence is being aware if there are reports of possible problems. You may decide to completely discount those reports, you might make some adjustments. But if you are ignorant of a potential problem then that informed choice is denied you.

I felt similarly until I was flashed, only a couple of years ago so in my 40s. I was walking home after a gig, well lit main road (but obviously quieter because it was late). It really shook me! I got a cab home for quite a few months afterwards if it was late and DH wasn't able to meet me at the station.

Just bear in mind that, however tempting, making comments like "Ooh, look: it's like a teeny weeny little version of a penis!" is exactly what some of them want. They're after any kind of reaction and will consider your giving them attention a 100% win. I gather there's also a more-widespread-than-you-might-think fetish that some men have in massively getting turned on by being humiliated and told they have a tiny willy by women; so there's a very good chance that some of these pervs have that fetish too.

They're vile and disgusting, but whatever you do, report them to the police rather than engaging with them directly. Of course, without evidence, they can lie to the police and tell them that it's not true - but if the same man is being regularly reported by numerous different women (or men for that matter), that could help them to build a case. I presume it would count as a hate crime, targeting women purely because of their sex?

OK, so this morning's message came from someone I know who often tells me how "brave" I am to run I the woods on my own.

Cue a hundred messages asking if she's OK. Lo and behold, she's fine, it happened to a friend of a friend...

It seems odd to me, when this seems to happen so often I this particular area, that you never hear if anyone being caught or see any police appeals. It sometime feels like these anxious women want everyone to be as anxious as they are.

What "precautions" can I realistically take, other than not to run there? I'm already sensible in that I don't wear headphones so I can be aware if my surroundings and whilst I'm quite fit, with the best will in the world and averagely fit man us going to out sprint me over the first 20 yards.

Ive had two-in a charity shop when some bloke just pulled his trousers and pants down
My children where at the other side of him (playing with the toys)-and I couldn’t get to them as he was in the way
Thankfully the ladies who worked there where on the ball and bundled him out-he was known for it-the police didn’t want to know as he had ‘mental health problems’
They didn’t even take a statement from us even tho we all where asking to give one-I was fuming
it was well known that he was banned from owning animals as he’d been caught having sex with one of his dogs at some point (I seemed to be the only person who’d not heard of this)
I think he got hounded out of the area as he just upped and left-with the 3 dogs he’d bought afterwards and was banned from owing

The other was when I popped into the local tattoo shop to get a price for a piecing and the owner was fuming
Turns out his tattooing artist he employed had been flashing at ladies young and old for some time
I’d heard in the news some of the times he’d done it but they just couldn’t seem to catch him
Until he waited at home time at a school near us-and flapped it at kids and parents coming out of the grounds
He got 8 months in prison if I remember rightly

Not enough-it’s sexual assault

*Like a PP, I do wonder why some women (and it is women) are so keen to issue these warnings, especially when they usually seem to have heard of the threat third hand
*
People do just mindlessly repost stuff anyway. Dogs that have gone missing in the suburbs of Boston in 2016 and the like.

We had a minor scandal in our town when a woman who sold Herbalife set up a park run in the local country park in order to tout her wares and then started posting on local Facebook sites that woman would be safer not to run there alone. She would pick articles out of the local newspaper and stretch the truth to infer that women weren't safe so we should all join park run.

I went to a girls school and one often turned up on our sports day. One year the head of physics tackled him to the ground. Great excitement!

I have been flashed at once and I reported it. I made it clear that I wasn’t personally bothered by it but felt it should be reported as it could be triggering for others - it was outside a hospital! Incidentally, I was with my father at the time and he didn’t even notice.

The guy was lifted by the police and he claimed he was “enthusiastically scratching” as it was a warm day. Turned out others had seen him so his excuse didn’t go far.

I was flashed at, two of us older women walking in the woods. I stopped and threw large stones at him - it took quite a few before he took off. Though I acted against him I was still shocked and frightened.

@Champagneforeveryone You cannot out right say they have no intention of harming anyone. Yes they do it for the thrill and that doesn’t always end there, I would say the majority would go onto do further when that no longer gives them the ‘thrill’

Many years ago at my local supermarket a man got caught in the children’s clothing isle masturbating and rubbing himself on clothing. He got arrested and many people witnessed his behavior but he was let go. I absolutely dread to think of what this vile man went on to do next

My mum for many years would not walk along a particular route that took us to the local post office. Years later she explained why, it had been because of a flasher.