Private school or £250k house deposit......

[JanieBP]

For your child. Just that really. DH calculated that to send our DC the whole way through private school will be £250k EACH (including fee increases etc....they are at a private school now, but we are reconsidering). Even the most modest private secondary education is going to set you back £60k per child. Yet almost everyone I meet who went to a private school can’t afford to send their own child privately (well not without significant grandparent help). One dad said to me his aim was to make ‘happy adults’. Doesn’t every parent want happy children- Even grown up ones? As adults if they can afford to get on the property ladder and have a secure home that might make them happier than being able to reminisce about the school play, school cricket matches and match tea.......

I'd put the money into a house with outstanding local schools. In a 10 mile radius from our location we have 6 outstanding primary schools half with class sizes of around 14, 3 outstanding secondaries and 2 grammars. I'd rather invest in a nice house, in a nice area with great schools rather than just schooling.

Most of the high earners I know too,.(100k plus) didn't even go to university either. It appears to be a belief that you must go to university to be a higher earned, but this really is bollocks. Aptitude and character are far more important attributes, alongside a little interest to learn perhaps?

[quote gongy]@justanotherneighinparadise I'm not sure what point you're making? I agree that costs have increased massively. [/quote]
I was agreeing with you 🤭

If you can put down £250k as a deposit, you can probably move to an area with good state schools.
House deposit and private tutoring to get them to pass the 11+ and into a good grammar school.

Yes. House is for the children. We have our own house. We don’t have a holiday house. We started in the state system and DCs are at their second private (due to a job move). First private school was wonderful, second is not. With 1 (private) exception the A level results at the local secondaries are the same between private and state. So I’m struggling to justify alit of money for amazing sports facilities given than neither child is likely to pursue a career in sport.(although they do love it).

Sorry- completely misread the post. (not had morning coffee yet!) Thought the money was there as a deposit!
However, I would still go for the house in a nice area with decent state schools/grammar.

Possibly depends on how academic your children are. If they are keen learners and would make the most of the learning potential of a private school and the extra opportunities they could offer then the school is likely the better option as they will get the chance to go to better universities and perhaps have contacts you might not otherwise have.

If they are likely to spend the time just messing about or aren’t doing well academically because their strengths lie elsewhere then it may not be the best option for them.

Also depends on the private school. Will going to that particular one open up opportunities that don’t exist in local schools? Are the teachers specialised and constant? Do they offer good and relevant extra curricular activities? Will going there open up access to better universities?

If your children are unlikely to make the most of the education because of ability or interests then house deposit and financial help could be the better investment.

@JanieBP

Yes. House is for the children. We have our own house. We don’t have a holiday house. We started in the state system and DCs are at their second private (due to a job move). First private school was wonderful, second is not. With 1 (private) exception the A level results at the local secondaries are the same between private and state. So I’m struggling to justify alit of money for amazing sports facilities given than neither child is likely to pursue a career in sport.(although they do love it).

ah right! That Harvard study cited in the article I linked to said that the three ways to create wealth for your child are 1) education, 2) buying them a house and 3 being in couple. You can't ''buy'' 3!

You're doing a lot for your children and I'd love to be able to afford to buy my children a small flat each. Just a roof over their heads so they had the freedom to resign, or to start at the bottom again in a different career, or to do a job they love rather than a job that pays the bills.

Research has shown that peer group influence has a huge affect on children's personality and wellbeing - in many cases greater than family.

Looking at which school has a good atmosphere and can provide a stimulating and friendly peer group - be it private or state - is easily as important as looking at overall school grades.

Grades may give an indication of future earning, but only an indication. And of course overall whole school grades will always be skewed against state schools to an extent due to the greater diversity of intake. Overall whole school grades certainly arent a great indicator of well-being or a happy adult in 50 years time.

ah, I think 3 means the children's own parents being in a couple.

If the primary goal of many parents is that their child grow to be a happy adult then a career that pays a high wage probably isn’t the way to achieve this.

I’m sure if we had the data it would prove that a more relaxed pace of life concentrating on community over material wealth is far better for good mental health than the pursuit of money.

I'd say coming from a working class background and as someone who went to Durham University and achieved excellent academic results, a house deposit would be much better. I met a lot of wonderful people at university but I certainly wouldn't send my children to private school.

I would only ever have considered private for my DCs if I could be absolutely certain that I could afford it for all DCs and for all the school years.

One of the sadder posts I have read on here was a poster who had used up every penny and every line of credit trying to keep her DD in private school. It didnt work and her DD was going to have to leave in the term before her GCSEs.

No way would I want to risk that for my DCs.

I can only speak from my experience but we moved house recently so changed schools in the process. Our child was in a private school and we moved them to a state primary in our village. We wanted them to be more integrated into the community with friends.

When the new state primary tested our child we were seriously shocked at how behind they were in what they should have been taught. The screening test put them at 6% on arrival (phonics). The new school were really concerned so worked out a plan to address the issue. I'm happy to say having been re-tested after a term of intensive help they are now in the high 80%. We couldn't be more happy with the new school and angry with the old school. Every parent's evening they told us how amazing our child was and how well they were doing. On the outside the school looked amazing, wonderful grounds, great pastoral care, good sporting facilities.

It clearly wasn't about the ability of the child but was squarely down to the teaching. Thank god we found out in time and it didn't run all the way upto GCSEs without us being aware there was a problem.

We will now be saving the money and buying the kids a house each.

My advice from this experience is make sure you get your child independently tested and don't just rely on what the private school tells you.

Winter2020

“If you decide to go with the house deposit I would keep it to yourself as for some people having things come easily robs them of motivation to strive. It can also bring problems to their relationship “my partner has £250k to put into a house but I only have 10....”.

Might be better to do something more subtle like when they start saving for a house (at the right time for them) offer to match what they save. Or offer to have them home rent free while they save. Or simply save the money yourself knowing that if they ever need your financial support you can be there for them.”

Agree

I'm not keen on private schooling.

My siblings and I went to a mixture and there is no evidence base for value for money nor greater enjoyment nor 'achievement' in our data set.

Our DP paid for private education over and above everything else so we missed out on a lot of other things and the 2 siblings who went private all the way through only got in the housing ladder in their thirties as DP could not help with deposits etc.

For me, private education creates problems as much as avoids them. I don't want my DC out of the house for really long hours and measuring their worth in grades or earning potential. I want my DC to mix with people from very different backgrounds and life experiences, I want them to follow their interests not the interests they're very much directed to have. I want them to feel lucky, content and grateful for their comfortable lives and not constantly want more or the next thing or judge our lifestyle as wanting compared to those with much greater wealth.

My DC mix a lot with privately educated dc and I see nothing that would make me want that for my DC. Their behaviour at sports practice/group activities is not better, their manners are not better, their conversational abilities are not better and their parents attitudes do not make me want to pay to spend more time with them

I was privately educated and would have vastly preferred financial help as a young adult (and more travel and opportunities as a child) and I'm a much lower earner than dh who went to a dreadful comp and is flying in his career.

My DC will be state the whole way and we are on course to be able to support them all through HE and with house deposits.

@JanieBP

I have adult DCs. I went through this dilemma and made the decision to move to an adjoining area with an excellent secondary school and my god, am I glad that was the decision we made.
The DCs thrived, went to RG Unis, got good degrees and now earn mega money in their careers. So I really don't agree that the only way to do this is through private schooling.

But I was very hands on, nothing escaped me, I really tried hard to make sure they fulfilled their potential. And they did. And I like it that they had the opportunity not just to be with kids whose parents could afford the school they were at.

When I went to private school, many of my contemporaries were there due to grandparents paying the fees. This was back in the 70's & 80s and those that weren't there due to grandparents picking up the tab where there boarding due to the government paying as their parents were in the forces.

If your dc are determined they will stand on their own two feet and make their own way in life, that will depend on their own character and patricianly the environment they are within

@justanotherneighinparadise
I think we do have the data.

news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2017/04/over-nearly-80-years-harvard-study-has-been-showing-how-to-live-a-healthy-and-happy-life/

"Close relationships, more than money or fame, are what keep people happy throughout their lives, the study revealed. Those ties protect people from life’s discontents, help to delay mental and physical decline, and are better predictors of long and happy lives than social class, IQ, or even genes. That finding proved true across the board among both the Harvard men and the inner-city participants."

I think this is always important to remember to:
“Those who were clearly train wrecks when they were in their 20s or 25s turned out to be wonderful octogenarians,” he said. “On the other hand, alcoholism and major depression could take people who started life as stars and leave them at the end of their lives as train wrecks.”

No such thing as "setting children up for life". We each make our own way in the end ...

Well it entirely depends on what your circumstances are and what you can afford.

We didn’t go private school but my kids do.

The first private school they went to was brilliant in building confidence and promoting ‘Happy children’ which it absolutely did however academically it was rubbish and we pulled them from there after two years.

The one they are in now is remarkable and the local state schools don’t come near it ( because of the amount of money in the school and small class sizes) and both kids are excelling and love school. There are ahead of their state school friends academically. Not because my kids are brighter but because our school is able to let them progress much more quicker. The school staff have time to talk and discuss issues properly with you which I felt in both private schools I’ve been in. The communication and the online teaching through out the lock down was fantastic and for me that’s where private schools stepped out of the shadows for education to children.

Regarding buying a house - we bought a shell of a house that was very very cheap (£15,000) for cash and rented it out. That’s our dds money for later down the line for houses, uni money ect..

However MN notoriously hates private and grammar schools so your always going to get responses like these

I was privately educated my entire education and I completely disagree with the elitist statements... it's such a stereotype.. while there are some very wealthy kids at such schools there are just as many working class families. Money isn't the focal point many would want you to believe. Private school doesn't 'buy' you a better job, entry into some secret society where life is easy either, or doors get opened etc - 50 years ago maybe, today no way. The right private school can however give the child who wants the opportunity to make the most of it - but they have to want it.

You can't 'buy' an education with private schooling, however if your child is bright, self-motivated & needing 'more' than the average state can offer then it can be a good investment. My daughter is at a private school for secondary after being in state for primary. She had to jump through hoops with multiple exams to get in. She went there only because our catchment state school is awful. She absolutely loves it because there's always more work they can give her, someone to compete against at her level, more competitions to enter, more sport, more activities... She does work like a trojan now - the work is shocking compared to what she did at her last school - but she does it with ease (many of her peers struggle). She was a ''problem'' child at primary, always in trouble, criticized by her teachers - I now realize she must have been bored out of her mind... She's under no pressure from me to ''excel'', participate in anything, or achieve anything - she does it all for herself. No regrets despite the financial struggle it really is to pay the fees. It's amazing to watch the transformation but it's not for every child.

So agree with your post KindKylie

Whilst my DCs were in their formative years, I wanted them to mix with every different child from every different background, not be just with a santised version of that. I wanted mine to realise that life was a struggle for some, financially and otherwise.

School without question for me.

If you are able to spend that money then you can find a school that provides the best suited education for your child. For us, we didn’t want a traditionally academic pushy school; we wanted a school that gives a huge range of experiences and educational opportunities beyond the usual curriculum. We did not want the ridiculousness of KS1 and 2 tests, we don’t like the focus state (schools where we are) have on a few certain subjects for league table purposes and we want our children outdoors and enjoying childhood for the sake of childhood without the drive for simply preparing them for adulthood. No extra tutors would be able to provide that as it is the day in day out difference we sought.

I would go with private school. I'm about as lower class as they come and my goal is to get my children into private or grammar school. I don't think you can put a price on the confidence and opportunites that a good education will offer. If I was gifted a house deposit in my early 20s I would have definitely have lost it by my 30s due to poor choices! If you have a good education you can earn a house deposit for yourself. Like the "Teach a man to fish" saying.

For those saying private school is elitist or posh, surely you challenge that behaviour at home? My kids are growing up in a council flat on benefits but it's still a world away from the shit I grew up in. They know how privileged they are and that many children don't have what they have.

It depends on the character of the child too. Some kids will rise to whatever level you put them in. Some kids are easily influenced by their peers. If you have a child that fits the latter category then a rough secondary modern might seriously derail their chances not to mention make your life fairly miserable.

state schools with extra tuition as needed - that is what we have done and i have 3 happy 20+. All gone to uni and several russell group top grade degrees and MSCs....one doing phd. Picking the best of the local schools depending on their ages.