Man taking 7-8 year old daughter into women's changing room

[bythere]

I was reading a reddit thread from the other month about a man at a martial arts studio taking his around 7-8 year old daughter into the women's locker room despite being told several times not to due to making women and girls uncomfortable. If anything, at that age she should be be fine in the woman's room by herself, although, he can maybe still take her into the men's room if necessary.

Has anyone ever had a man come into the women's locker room while you were there with a young daughter? Did you say or do anything if it happened?

For example, our local aldi only has the disability toilet open for the customers. If you ask them to go to the ladies or gents they say no, use that one. It's big enough for a mum with a buggy, or with little kids, and has a changing table. That's the perfect toilet, if most places had one of these IN ADDITION to the disability toilets it would solve all these problems.

glummy

You're incredibly insensitive. You have no right to think it 'should' be fine for an 8 year old to go into that space. Nor do you know about the level of risk (your perspective is extremely presumptive in thinking there is no real risk) or any father's ability to protect-some men don't feel safe in men's spaces, let alone their small DD in. This is not something, unless you're a man, you will know a thing about.

If you don't feel safe with a man in your woman's space, I'm disgusted that you dismiss a female child's discomfort (and with no knowledge of her prior experiences!!) as overly sensitive. I'd rather you were put out than her, frankly. Your victimhood contrasts very unfavourably with your unconcern.

I'm disgusted that you dismiss a female child's discomfort (and with no knowledge of her prior experiences!!)

What about any other female children in the womens toilet and their discomfort when a man unexpectedly walks in to this womens space?

Anyway, it's time to sleep. Glummy, sorry again for the name.
I really understand everybodys point of view, I just don't think things are as black and white as we're trying to make them look, and children should have a choice.
Sorry If I offended anyone, and to reply to a previous comment. It wasn't gaslighting, I really feel bad about how society has made us feel we constantly need to fight.

The answer to all this is a gender neutral toilet really. (one cubicle with its own sink separate from the gendered toilets) every time i go somewhere like a cafe or restaurant I always leave a note about this

How is a kid taking two minutes to wee, with a parent either inside to help them or outside the door, and if someone who needs it comes they have to wait for a minute, such a big problem?

If they have IBS it could mean shitting themselves.

And its not about pandering, showing kids that they have a choice and their opinion matters just makes them more confident in saying no.

Telling children they have a choice to break rules and social norms is terrible parenting. Telling them they can pick and choose which toilet is not showing kids anything other than to disrespect others. It's far better to reassure them, that mummy/daddy is there and will be with them the whole time, and they will keep them safe.

And I'd prioritise her right to having parental supervision when she accesses facilities, without having to go somewhere you presumably would feel outraged if you were expected to go.

Imagine if a disabled women was told to go into the men's loos with her husband if she couldn't access the loos in the ladies and she'd be perfectly safe because her husband could just do his Rambo thing if necessary. Crazy.

How is a kid taking two minutes to wee, with a parent either inside to help them or outside the door, and if someone who needs it comes they have to wait for a minute, such a big problem?

So you see no issues with expecting women to hand over their hard won rights to single sex spaces, you see no issues with expecting those with disabilities to hand over their hard won rights to accessible toilets and you see no issues with teaching young children that it’s fine to use the disabled toilet if they don’t want to use the toilet matching their sex? All so a 7 year old girl isn’t subjected to the indignity of going in the men’s with her dad, unless of course, her 8 year old brother wants to go in the men’s, and then her opinion suddenly doesn’t count?

I don’t think you’ve thought this through.

My two boys when very young would come into the ladies changing room at the swimming pool with me. However once they got to 7 or so it felt awkward as how ever many times you tell them not to stare or look at other women getting changed they will still do it. Curiosity. But embarrassing for girls and women. It is then time they got changed in the men’s. It isn’t fair to make women uncomfortable.

Although I want to add, in our fight to protect single sex spaces we also need to advocate for more family spaces. Such as single cubicle large toilets, family changing rooms etc - for mixed sex families and those who don't feel safe using the facilities of their sex

It's far better to reassure them, that mummy/daddy is there and will be with them the whole time, and they will keep them safe.

Rubbish.

You can't keep an 8 year old safe from feeling extremely uncomfortable and potentially seeing things she doesn't want to see.

Crucial difference between men and women's loos. Urinals Vs cubicles.

Imagine if a disabled women was told to go into the men's loos with her husband if she couldn't access the loos in the ladies and she'd be perfectly safe because her husband could just do his Rambo thing if necessary. Crazy. Just as crazy as inviting men into the ladies loos.

some men don't feel safe in men's spaces, let alone their small DD in.

But women should feel just peachy with a man they don't know being in their space? You really can't see the sexism and double standard?*

This is not something, unless you're a man, you will know a thing about.*

Ha. Hahahaha. Hahahahahaha. Yes as a woman I know nothing about feeling unsafe around men 🤪

If you don't feel safe with a man in your woman's space, I'm disgusted that you dismiss a female child's discomfort (and with no knowledge of her prior experiences!!) as overly sensitive. I'd rather you were put out than her, frankly. Your victimhood contrasts very unfavourably with your unconcern.

You have absolutely no idea what I'm a victim of thank you.
And a dad's right to take his DD into the women's loo (because...penises...perverts...porcelain contraptions...men's backs...I've not had a straight answer TBH) - which she highly likely won't give two shits about, seeing as most girls don't - does not trump my right to my single sex space
Presumably when that child turns 18 she must give up her rights? We only protect little girls until they become women?

I find it disgusting that children's feelings, safety and sensitivities are dismissed and ignored if they come into conflict with women's discomfort. It's not a competition you have automatically won. Children are actually more important.

which she highly likely won't give two shits about

You have absolutely no idea what she gives two shits about thank you.

You can't keep an 8 year old safe from feeling extremely uncomfortable

Of course you can, that's your very job as a parent. You're a shit parent if you don't even give it a try.

We only protect little girls until they become women?

Er, you've made it quite clear that you don't protect them at all.

@Sn0tnose

How is a kid taking two minutes to wee, with a parent either inside to help them or outside the door, and if someone who needs it comes they have to wait for a minute, such a big problem?

So you see no issues with expecting women to hand over their hard won rights to single sex spaces, you see no issues with expecting those with disabilities to hand over their hard won rights to accessible toilets and you see no issues with teaching young children that it’s fine to use the disabled toilet if they don’t want to use the toilet matching their sex? All so a 7 year old girl isn’t subjected to the indignity of going in the men’s with her dad, unless of course, her 8 year old brother wants to go in the men’s, and then her opinion suddenly doesn’t count?

I don’t think you’ve thought this through.

Stop making sense @Sn0tnose you're going to start upsetting people!

Of course you can, that's your very job as a parent. You're a shit parent if you don't even give it a try.

Indeed. Probably why a very embarrassed daddy was in the ladies

@96315id

I find it disgusting that children's feelings, safety and sensitivities are dismissed and ignored if they come into conflict with women's discomfort. It's not a competition you have automatically won. Children are actually more important.

No children are not automatically more important. Being a child doesn't mean you win over every woman no matter how ridiculous.

It's ridiculous to think a little girl can't go into the men's toilets with her dad.

Remind me again why it isn't so horrific doe boys to use the men's loos?

Isn’t it weird how all the men pissing around in the men’s toilets are perverts, flashers, willy waving wobblers but when these same men go into the women’s toilets with their DDs they are my Nigel, my safe husband, my brother etc and you women need not worry but just move over.

For years men have been taking their young DDs into the men’s toilets when they are out shopping, etc etc. My dad took me. I really can’t remember being distressed by it. We would walk straight into a cubicle as fast as possible.

@96315id

We only protect little girls until they become women?

Er, you've made it quite clear that you don't protect them at all.

Oh I'm so sorry I don't want to protect all the little girls (not boys remember) from men's backs 🤣🤣🤣

I'm a little worried what you think actually happens in men's toilets. @SimonJT as a man had actually confirmed that there's nothing to fear, yet this hysteria over girls being in them has escalated.

LIke I say if you've raised such an insecure child that she can't feel safe with her dad then you have very big problems. We are meant to protect our children, not I still fear.

@96315id

Of course you can, that's your very job as a parent. You're a shit parent if you don't even give it a try.

Indeed. Probably why a very embarrassed daddy was in the ladies

He should be embarrass, he wasn't trying to do anything other than confirm that A. Women aren't entitled to so by le sex spaces and B. Men's toilets are scary places and daddy can't protect her

@Coffeeandcocopops

Isn’t it weird how all the men pissing around in the men’s toilets are perverts, flashers, willy waving wobblers but when these same men go into the women’s toilets with their DDs they are my Nigel, my safe husband, my brother etc and you women need not worry but just move over.

For years men have been taking their young DDs into the men’s toilets when they are out shopping, etc etc. My dad took me. I really can’t remember being distressed by it. We would walk straight into a cubicle as fast as possible.

Yes yes yes. I said something similar upthread but people are far too busy calling me others meanies to actually sit back and realise how ridiculous their arguments are.

I find it disgusting that children's feelings, safety and sensitivities are dismissed and ignored if they come into conflict with women's discomfort. It's not a competition you have automatically won. Children are actually more important.

Yeah Glummy, you’re being really mean. Never mind the women and girls who won’t be able to use the toilet at all if there’s a man in there due to religious or cultural reasons. Or the women and girls whose safety will be at risk in the ladies because we’ve made it a free for all. Or any of us pesky feminist types who believe in single sex spaces. Sod them. They aren’t important. The only important thing is that we don’t cause any inconvenience for Dave by expecting him to find out where there’s a suitable unisex toilet or family facility before he takes his child out for the day. Remember, telling men ‘no’ is not being kind!

We only protect little girls until they become women?

No

According to some posters on here we only protect littles girls until the6 are able to go to the loo by themselves...so not 18 at all