Man taking 7-8 year old daughter into women's changing room

[bythere]

I was reading a reddit thread from the other month about a man at a martial arts studio taking his around 7-8 year old daughter into the women's locker room despite being told several times not to due to making women and girls uncomfortable. If anything, at that age she should be be fine in the woman's room by herself, although, he can maybe still take her into the men's room if necessary.

Has anyone ever had a man come into the women's locker room while you were there with a young daughter? Did you say or do anything if it happened?

As a lesbian mum I wouldn't dream of going into the men's room with my sons. I'd have them in the women's changing room until they were old enough to go to the men's by themselves.

Adult men bring their child to the men's and adult women bring their child to the women's. It's really not that hard. And honestly, men's changing rooms and toilets are not much worse than women's. Also I've seen public toilets (women's) with bloody pads on the floor, blood stains on seat, urine on the floor, toilet paper spread everywhere. Women can also be disgusting.

That father may have had good intentions but he and his young daughter belong in the men's until she's old enough to go to the women's by herself.

I’ve challenged a man before. This was at a large public swimming pool in a multi cultural area. There are large unisex areas and then separate areas that are single sex. Coming to the women’s showers inside the women only area I found a large man (I think Eastern European) who was learning on the wall right by the sign saying “women’s showers”.

I told him this was a woman only area and he said “I’m waiting for my daughter” so it was clear he knew he was in the wrong area. I reminded him there were unisex showers and changing cubicals (you can’t miss them) he should be using them. AND THEN his daughter came out with a woman so she wasn’t on her own anyway!

the consideration of women doesn't even enter into most people's heads.

The consideration of that female child certainly didn't enter your head....

Men have no place in women’s spaces.

Men shouldn’t be in women’s changing rooms whether they have a child with them or not.

Dh would take dd to the men’s toilets if he had her, and I would take ds to the women’s if I had him.

Dd is now old enough to go to the toilet alone but ds isn’t quite there yet so he would still go in the women’s with me. Once he’s old enough to go alone, I’ll happily wait outside the door whilst he goes in. No way would I go in!

I can’t believe how many people said they don’t mind men in women’s spaces as it wont stop pervy men from walking in anyway.

As it stands, most perverts would be put off in walking into women’s spaces as obviously he would be called out for it.

If he starts to see loads of men entering, he suddenly had a valid reason of “but he’s here too”

Suddenly it’s no longer a woman’s space but a mixed space, whilst the men’s remain men’s.

No! Not happening

I can’t believe how many people said they don’t mind men in women’s spaces as it wont stop pervy men from walking in anyway

The only time predators and voyeurs have any kind of validity as a reason is when men and boys over the age on the sign want into women's spaces. The rest of the time we should stop accusing all men of being rapists and get over themselves and of course take comfort in the fact the law protects them if anything happens

Who knew that the only reason fir womens spaces was to protect males...

A child goes with their parent into whatever toilet they would use. That is the only way I have ever done it, and seen done. My DS is 5 - I would take him with me to the ladies' toilet not walk into the men's

I think I should make it clear that I don't think men should be in women's changing rooms in things like leisure centres. There's rarely a need for it because most have family changing facilities and some of the examples in this thread do sound like men overstepping boundaries. It was the loo thing that didn't bother me too much. Also my husband rarely had to take either of our daughter's into loos when we were out, but when he did he used the male loos.

@notafanoftheman

Pretty sure it was. But anyway whoever it was they will be working just like I am.

It wasn't, I'm not lying it was Nina if you must know

@knittingaddict would it be ok to take a boy into the men's loos?

One of the restaurants I go to has a huge room with men's cubicles down one side and women's on the other with wash basins between them. Perhaps that would work more widely or family loos

If this was available alongside single sex facilities - great. But not as the only option

It's not some bizzare fantasy room with men dancing around in a lake of piss swinging their knobs about, it's just a bog like any other.

😂😂😂 how disappointing 🤣

how disappointing

Well its not all towel fights and girl on girl experimentation in ours either

Just for the benefit of any men who think its like in the movies...

@96315id

the consideration of women doesn't even enter into most people's heads.

The consideration of that female child certainly didn't enter your head....

@96315id what was there to consider? Why would it be so awful for her to go into the men's toilets?

[quote GlummyMcGlummerson]@knittingaddict would it be ok to take a boy into the men's loos?

One of the restaurants I go to has a huge room with men's cubicles down one side and women's on the other with wash basins between them. Perhaps that would work more widely or family loos

If this was available alongside single sex facilities - great. But not as the only option[/quote]
I wouldn't turn a hair at a man taking a boy into a men's loo. I'm well aware that it's a ridiculous double standard. I'm not saying that my view is right, just that it personally wouldn't bother me too much if a man took his daughter into the women's loos. I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

The restaurant loos I talked about had no other facilities. Only the ones I mentioned.

It's in Turtle Bay in Bath.

@9631id that's what I've been saying.

Sorry glummy for not leaving work and ds to jump in and reply to you. You are obviously way more invested in this than I am.

Obv what I said was for the toilets, there are changing rooms for families at most facilities.
We are talking about safe space for women but answer me this. What about trans women? Look and dress like women (feel like women most importantly) could be in danger in men's toilets. What then?

Do you care about all women or just women like you?

Womens toilets have cubicles that most of the time lock, you just see women wash their hands. If you see a man he's either with a young kid or changing a baby. I wouldn't mind knowing that it's best for the kid.
I'm sorry you're so bitter and can only point your finger and instigate situations without giving a shit about the most vulnerable ones.

Also (not aimed at you) I saw a pp saying "it's mostly men whose first language isn't English" isn't that a bit racist though? And why are foreign men seen automatically as dangerous?

I'm foreign as well. I never had a situation of a man being a perv in the toilets. Literally nobody bats an eye. Actually, we try to help the kids. I don't understand all this hate.
I asked dh, he said if we had a daughter he wouldn't want to be out alone with her cause he would risk being seen as a perv, but doesn't want her in the men's either.

Instead of attacking men, how about we start leaving complaints for the lack of facilities?

I'm not saying that my view is right, just that it personally wouldn't bother me too much if a man took his daughter into the women's loos. I don't expect anyone to agree with me

I'm just wondering if you get the logic really. Men and women favouring the womeks loos becuase there's no men and its safer and understanding why that safety is required but then not realising how that safety is compromised by letting those men in just becuase they have children with them..

@knittingaddict I guess I'm trying to understand the logic as to why girls can't be accompanied by their dad into the men's but boys can

@knittingaddict

It's in Turtle Bay in Bath.

I was actually there in July!! But none of us needed the loo IIRC

And since we are talking about little girls. What if the actual child didn't want to go the men's. Would she have to be forced? Isn't that worse than you getting inconvenienced?

@notafanoftheman

I don't get why it's better for young girls to see a row of cocks than for a man to see a row of closed doors and women washing their hands

Why would a Dad be holding a girl over the side of each individual urinal? Are you aware that we point our penis at the urinal, not the door to the toilets.

Then parents have to be parents. They do as they are told. Unless u give into toddler tantrums?

If they still need help and are not big enough to go to the womens by themselves they do what every other dad or male gardian has to do.

Sorry glummy for not leaving work and ds to jump in and reply to you. You are obviously way more invested in this than I am.

Ugh passive aggression is so dull.
Also, I asked a few times while you were still posting so don't pretend you didn't ignore the question.

Obv what I said was for the toilets, there are changing rooms for families at most facilities.

Not everywhere and certainly not most facilities. It's still not ok.

We are talking about safe space for women but answer me this. What about trans women? Look and dress like women (feel like women most importantly) could be in danger in men's toilets. What then?

What does "looking and dressing like women" mean? I didn't realise women had a uniform. What does a woman look and dress like?

Toilets should be sex segregated, men should use men's toilets and women should use women's. It is not up to women to provide a safe space to men from other men.

Do you care about all women or just women like you?

I care about women who are women, not just the ones who "look and dress" like women.

Womens toilets have cubicles that most of the time lock, you just see women wash their hands. If you see a man he's either with a young kid or changing a baby. I wouldn't mind knowing that it's best for the kid.

Why can't he change them or take them to the loo in his own space? Why are women-only spaces suddenly a free for all?

I'm sorry you're so bitter and can only point your finger and instigate situations without giving a shit about the most vulnerable ones.

I'm sorry you have so much internalises misogyny you can't see that you're eager to sell women's rights down the river. How do you know I am not part of the "most vulnerable" group?

I'm foreign as well. I never had a situation of a man being a perv in the toilets. Literally nobody bats an eye. Actually, we try to help the kids. I don't understand all this hate.
I asked dh, he said if we had a daughter he wouldn't want to be out alone with her cause he would risk being seen as a perv, but doesn't want her in the men's either.

What happens in the men's that she can't be exposed to - considering there's so few pervs?

Instead of attacking men, how about we start leaving complaints for the lack of facilities?

why is it always up to women to fight the battles for men? If they want baby changing facilities in men's toilets, or unisex toilets so they don't feel likes pervs when taking their kids to the loo, they should fight for it. You know, a bit like how women have fought for their own facilities for centuries (it certainly wasn't men leading the way for our rights).

Still interested to know if your husband (or any man) had a boy and a girl and he was out in public which toilet he should take them to?

I see the dick panderers are out in force.

If a man insists on muscling into women's toilets and changing rooms, whatever pretext he's using, he's telling you loud and clear that he's precisely the sort of man who shouldn't be there.

It goes beyond not giving a shit about women's boundaries. I'd it money on 99% of the men who do this getting off on the boundary violation. (Not necessarily sexually, though some will of course; I suspect simply having found a pretext to bully women will be what does it for many).

As for the dick panderers, I suspect most of them were either brought up by a man like this or are married to a man like this. Either way, I don't care that your boundaries are fucked up - that's your problem (though I feel sorry for your daughter's). But my boundaries are not yours to give away.