Man taking 7-8 year old daughter into women's changing room

[bythere]

I was reading a reddit thread from the other month about a man at a martial arts studio taking his around 7-8 year old daughter into the women's locker room despite being told several times not to due to making women and girls uncomfortable. If anything, at that age she should be be fine in the woman's room by herself, although, he can maybe still take her into the men's room if necessary.

Has anyone ever had a man come into the women's locker room while you were there with a young daughter? Did you say or do anything if it happened?

[96315id]

Why would it be so awful for her to go into the men's toilets

It was indeed an answer. You know perfectly well why it would be undermining to her personal space, for the same reason that you want to keep men out of other women's spaces.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Is that a problem parents need to solve rather than expect everyone else to bail them out?

[Sn0tnose]

I do not want my four-year-old daughter to go into the men’s with her dad and see men pissing in urinals thank you very much. I do not want your daughter’s dad wandering into the ladies with your four year old daughter either, thank you very much.

We are talking about safe space for women but answer me this. What about trans women? Look and dress like women (feel like women most importantly) could be in danger in men's toilets. What then? This report from 2018 (www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html) tells you how dangerous it is for women when spaces are not segregated by sex. It’s not the only report available. Feel free to Google something like ‘woman attacked in toilet’ and there will be no end of physical and sexual assaults, spy cameras and inappropriate behaviour. Google ‘trans woman attacked in male toilets’ Compare the numbers.

[Henio]

@GlummyMcGlummerson

A man came into the ladies toilet with his little girl in Pizza Express once. I did challenge him, I said this is the ladies. "Yeah I'm with my daughter". I said then you need to go into the men's. TBF, he did, albeit begrudgingly.

Let's face it - the consideration of women doesn't even enter into most people's heads. We are props, we have no agency, and they can walk all over us

Why would that bother you though? It's not like your peeing or sorting sanitary products in view of everyone in there, you're in a locked cubicle 🤷 much worse for a little girl to go into the men's toilet where they're peeing in full view

[MrsJunglelow]

Gosh what a thread!

I like to think I am very much a feminist but I honestly would have no problem whatsoever with a man with his young daughter going into the ladies toilets and am quite flabbergasted by some of the comments on here.

I certainly wouldn’t expect a dad to take their young daughter into the mens.
I can’t believe anyone thinks that’s okay.

What is to be seen in the ladies?
Women behind doors and women washing their hands at a sink.

And in the mens?
Men with their dicks out pissing into urinals...
I know which one I (and most fathers) would rather their DD be seeing.

If my DH has gone out alone with DD and I found out he’d taken her into the mens for the toilet (not that he would) I’d be furious!

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Are you seriously suggesting that all dads are basically abusing their dds im some way by taking them to the mens? No wonder so many dads don't bother taking their kids out or shirk their responsibility as a dad because all they have to do is get into some pretend panic about the toilet dilemma...

No, do not play that game. Its perfectly fine for dads to look after their dds on their own complete with taking their kid to the toilet.

Stop giving men that excuse...

[MrsJunglelow]

I am suggesting that is inappropriate to take a young girl into a mens toilet where she will be seeing adult men pissing.
She should be in the ladies.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

So what dads should never take their kids out?

[SimonJT]

@MrsJunglelow

I am suggesting that is inappropriate to take a young girl into a mens toilet where she will be seeing adult men pissing.
She should be in the ladies.

Seeing the back of a clothed man is extremely traumatic.

[MrsJunglelow]

So what dads should never take their kids out?

No.
They should take the child out and if the child needs the toilet they take her to the ladies.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Then its not the ladies is it?

[MrsJunglelow]

The child is female yes?

What are you expecting the man with his young daughter to do in there exactly..?
The insinuation appears to be that he must be some sort of deviant or danger to consider going in there.
Which is ridiculous.

If he was alone I would agree he has no place in there.
If his daughter was old enough to go by herself I would also agree.
But I cannot even begin to understand the hysteria over a parent taking a small child to the loo.
Presumably you wouldn’t react quite so hysterically over a mother taking her young DS in the men toilets?
As I did once when I was out alone with him and he didn’t want to use the girls (he was about 4)
Maybe you would, who knows 🤷‍♀️

I think it’s beyond ridiculous though

[Sn0tnose]

And in the mens?
Men with their dicks out pissing into urinals...
I know which one I (and most fathers) would rather their DD be seeing

At least one male poster has replied confirming that nobody would be seeing anything unless they were leaning into the urinals and having a good look, which a responsible father would make sure didn’t happen. Women don’t want men in their toilets for a myriad of reasons, including religious reasons, cultural reasons, trauma based reasons, generally feeling uncomfortable at being in such close proximity to men at a time when they want some privacy and, actually, just because men should not be in women’s toilets. If a father is taking his daughter out and isn’t happy about taking her into the men’s, then the onus is on him to either find out where the nearest unisex toilets are or to make alternative arrangements that are acceptable to him. It is not the responsibility of women to facilitate this for him, or find him an acceptable solution.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

If grown men are wandering into the ladies with their children then its no longer the ladies.

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

When my DH (of father, or brother, or FIL) my slightly older DDs go into the ladies alone, while their male carer takes the leap of faith it is a safe, women only environment. A man taking a young girl in there violates that leap of faith, making it less safe for the girls.

You may know your partner to be a decent man. Other women and girls don't. Or indeed their carers.

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

@96315id

Why would it be so awful for her to go into the men's toilets

It was indeed an answer. You know perfectly well why it would be undermining to her personal space, for the same reason that you want to keep men out of other women's spaces.

@96315id
Why would it be undermining to her personal space? It's what men have been doing forever. And is it undermining to a boy's personal space to take him into the ladies? What about if he had a boy AND a girl?

And no it wasn't an answer

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Why would that bother you though? It's not like your peeing or sorting sanitary products in view of everyone in there, you're in a locked cubicle 🤷 much worse for a little girl to go into the men's toilet where they're peeing in full view

A man has come in this thread to confirm men do not in fact pee in full view of anyone. Little girls will see men's backs, nothing else.

It's a toilet made for me not for some random bloke who thinks Precious is too good for the men's

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

@MrsJunglelow

Gosh what a thread!

I like to think I am very much a feminist but I honestly would have no problem whatsoever with a man with his young daughter going into the ladies toilets and am quite flabbergasted by some of the comments on here.

I certainly wouldn’t expect a dad to take their young daughter into the mens.
I can’t believe anyone thinks that’s okay.

What is to be seen in the ladies?
Women behind doors and women washing their hands at a sink.

And in the mens?
Men with their dicks out pissing into urinals...
I know which one I (and most fathers) would rather their DD be seeing.

If my DH has gone out alone with DD and I found out he’d taken her into the mens for the toilet (not that he would) I’d be furious!

@MrsJunglelow can little boys go into the men's though? Why isn't it traumatising for them?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

@Whatwouldscullydo

Are you seriously suggesting that all dads are basically abusing their dds im some way by taking them to the mens? No wonder so many dads don't bother taking their kids out or shirk their responsibility as a dad because all they have to do is get into some pretend panic about the toilet dilemma...

No, do not play that game. Its perfectly fine for dads to look after their dds on their own complete with taking their kid to the toilet.

Stop giving men that excuse...

Some women on here who bark at use being 'men haters' seem to have a very low opinion themselves of men seeing as they can't be trusted to look after their own daughters safely.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

I cant get the fact that everyone wants the safety and set up of the womens whilst simultaneously coming up with multiple excuses as to why men can then shit all over it

Completely kissing theor fact thab when kids go to secondary school by themselves and stop off at the bus station toilet, fhey no longer need their dad with them but someone else's dad might be there ajd they are suloosed to trust him on the pretence of them being with a child?

So abusers aren't fathers now?.you cabt be a dad and a creep?

Theres some weird kinda miraculous occurrence that as soon as a man has a chind and reaches the ladies loo door they never do anything bad ever.

Maybe they should fit mens prisons with womens toilets safe and solve everyones problems..

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

You only see what you want to see.
I'm sorry society made you so hateful (not passive aggressive I swear).

I see women being oppressed everywhere, their safe spaces, rights and single sex facilities dwindling by the day in the name of 'progression'. I see when strong women stand up and complain about it they're called Karen's by younger, dumber people who will one day wonder why there aren't any safe spaces anymore. I see those who believe women should have the right to be away from men at times being called hateful.

I'm sorry your female socialisation has given you so little self worth that you don't even think you deserve to use the toilet in privacy. Not passive aggressive, I swear.

But being constantly on the offence doesn't leave much room for discussion

Not agreeing with you doesn't make me "on the offence". Going back to female socialisation- women standing up for themselves is seen as being aggressive. Nothing offends misogynists more than an unladylike woman.

I'm sorry that you see an enemy in every man and that you disregard trans women based on their genitals.

I certainly don't see an enemy in every man - I'm not the one who think men are so very bad/disgusting/penis wavers that little girls should be kept away from them (not little boys though for some reason).

And if we aren't defining women by their genitals is, then what is a woman? Long hair and a dress, or some other sexist stereotype - is that what makes a woman?
Transwomen are transwomen. They are not women. There is no way to look, feel, or dress like a woman. You either one or you're not.

By disregarding biology you are stamping all over your rights, and the sad thing is you don't even realise it. Conflating sex with gender is not only dangerous but minimises the experiences females go through from birth. Afterall, no one asks a baby girl what her gender is before performing FGM. And (paraphrasing another feminist) you can have all the genders you want but we all know who does the emotional Labour and wipes all the arses.

You don't fight for women, you fight for cishet women like you.

I fight for actual women, lesbians too. Not sure why you've brought sexual orientation into it.

And I am not cishet woman. I am a woman. No prefix needed.

It must be difficult not being able to let go of this anger and complaint.

I'm simply responding to illogical points on a thread. Why must passionate women be labelled as 'angry'?

Right now anything I say you just use it to make this a bigger deal that it is and I won't entertain this I'm sorry

See I think the real reason you won't answer the questions I've put to you several times - including "which toilet should a man use if he's with both his daughter and his son" - is because you can't give an answer that aligns with your views that children shouldn't be in in the toilet of their opposite sex. You know it's illogical, and attempting to answer would show this.

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

@Whatwouldscullydo a classic recurring MN doublethink is "Oh not my Nigel, he couldn't care less what you're doing in the women's toilet, he's there for his daughter. But the men in the men's loos - other people husbands, and some who will be dads of young girls themselves - are potential molesters and my daughter MUST NOT SEE THEM. Yes, the pervs are in the men's and the nice men are in the ladies".

Bizarre.

[Whatwouldscullydo]

That's exactly it...

[Whatwouldscullydo]

Strangely you seem to have the mens loos then "everyone who might not be safe in the mens" loos

Small children of either sex are a given but grown men with their dds...nah ...

I mean do what we do... go places that accommodate your needs fir that period of time. Why do men get to be free of that part? We all did it.. when we were potty training you learn where every toilet is, you tailor wht you do in order to be within the limitations you face. If that means buying a coffee some where so you can use their nice clean loo or not attempting long bus journeys fir a bit so be it.

You get on with it and men aren't so special they don't have to do that and can stroll right in wherever they want

[jennie0412]

@PuddleglumtheMarshWiggleThe first time was an Asian man

why do we need to know he was Asian?