Labour friend awful about tories

[tabicae]

NC as probably outing. I have a very close friend who is there for me though everything really and I am for them. We have always avoided politics and have had very different backgrounds. Given what’s been going on recently I’m politics, it’s been hard to avoid the topic.

Whilst I personally have no massive political leaning and can see both sides without coming down massively on either one, she knows that I was brought up in a Tory household and although I have never disclosed who I would vote for, she knows I am on the fence about things and like some Tory polices and some labour. A lot of my childhood was based around things she seems to strongly dislike and is open about...private schools, inheritance, private health, second homes etc.

Anyway..getting to the point. She has become VERY vocal about these things. Slagging off private education and people who went to them (always careful to say ‘there are exceptions’). Being critical of second homes yet happily staying in my parents second homes free of charge for a holiday. And it goes on like that.

She has recently become quite vulgar about tories, calling them and Boris c*nts, etc. I know I feel defensive about this as my dad is a very generous, caring man and he voted for Boris. It feels quite personal.

I’ve noticed that it seems ok on social media and in conversation to being vulgar about tories/anyone who aligns themselves with any Tory policies, yet it is unacceptable to ever do the same if you are a Tory talking about a labour supporter. In fact I am yet to hear a Tory speak so awfully about someone who votes for another party. I feel like her comments are getting in between our friendship and whilst I always knew we differed on this topic it has never ever been an issue between us.

I’m not sure what to say really...maybe she’s always had this view of me and my family and is only now vocalising it? Would you address it?

But when you are working hard to have most of what you earn taken away, that is bound to feel unfair? what tax band takes most of what you earn?

Lets just face the facts - the Tories are scum.

I guess that’s the difference - my dad is far too lovely to ever call a state school kid from a poor area a cunt, or be nasty about their parents.

But he's happy to vote for people who will vote against the poorest children getting free school meals in the summer holidays

If she’s a good friend though why not just have it out with her? “IE plenty of good people vote Tory. Mostly we want the same things - we just disagree about how to get there, etc etc”. Don’t be so passive.

"Then why don't you give her the alternative then?

Like, it's not cunty to refuse to feed starving children in poverty.

Or it's not cunty to take a pay rise for yourself but clap when a pay rise for nurses was blocked.

Oh...."

THIS!!! ^^

@tabicae

It’s actually shocking how cruel, nasty comments are made about people and kids even !! who are from privileged backgrounds yet anyone who votes Tory is a cunt.

I guess that’s the difference - my dad is far too lovely to ever call a state school kid from a poor area a cunt, or be nasty about their parents.

Your dad voted in a government that will absolutely fuck over state school kids from poor areas. And their parents. Do you watch the news? You must be on a wind up here, nobody has this little self awareness.

ihatemyself I’m pretty sure that happened after the votes and my dad didn’t directly vote for that.

But good to know you can only define someone by the way they vote. I’m sure that serves you well and if they don’t agree with you politically just use disgusting language and be nasty about their family.

pumper my dad didn’t choose for state school kids not to have free meals. Not everyone who voted Tory agrees with that decision, can you understand that nuance?

This thread shows just how polarised politics has become.

I would agree, I think, that the left wing are less tolerant of individual people on the right. However most of the media is very intolerant of the left.

But either way, what's happened to the middle?

Most people I this thread seem to see those who voted Tory as full on right wingers who care about no-one, rather than people who might be closer to the centre and who might have had to think through what each party was offering in order to decide what to vote.

As I said before, I'm left leaning. But not full on lefty. I certainly would never vote Tory. But I was raised by Tory parents. It's absolutely ridiculous and unfair for previous posted to lambast both OP and her parents, and make assumptions on how they brought her up.

Again, I'm embarrassed to be on the left when I read many comments on this thread.

“But either way, what's happened to the middle? “

Well, Keir Starmer is as centrist and sane as they come. Trouble is we have to wait 4 years until Brexit has the country on its knees.

@tabicae

pumper my dad didn’t choose for state school kids not to have free meals. Not everyone who voted Tory agrees with that decision, can you understand that nuance?

No, I don’t. Explain to me why your dad is a Tory voter yet is on the side of those kids. Or the ones who might have had opportunities in Europe. Or the ones who will have no choice to accept a massive reduction in food standards. Or the ones with disabled parents who’ve had their benefits frozen. Or the ones who happen to have lived in say, a council house with a spare bedroom - remember that?

@tabicae

pumper my dad didn’t choose for state school kids not to have free meals. Not everyone who voted Tory agrees with that decision, can you understand that nuance?

People who don't agree with it don't vote Tory. Your dad and people like him care more about their own bank accounts than they do about children in poverty. That's why they vote Tory.

Jeeze, even more assumptions going on while I typed.

My Tory friends support and help fund a project for the homeless, and they were very angry over the free meals decision. Not all Tory voters support everything the party does. Just as not all Labour voters agree with everything their party does.

Polarisation in politics is SO dangerous. Just look at America...

The spite and venom always seem to be coming from the left/centre left...

Tbf, your friend has a point 🤣

@Pumperthepumper do you think that because someone votes for a certain party, they have to agree with every single policy?

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

The spite and venom always seem to be coming from the left/centre left...

Yes, Tommy Robinson is a well known, level headed sort of a chap. Also Nigel Farage. Poster boys for the tolerant right.

No you didn't say that poor people don't work hard.

You said that if you work hard and earn a lot of money and then most of it is taken away from you, it would be annoying if people who work LESS HARD THAN YOU get to keep more of what they earn.

That implies that people who earn less work less hard.

But it works both ways - there are some people who work nowhere near as hard as you or I but because they happen to own a massive company, they have a shit tonne of money. Footballers and celebrities spring to mind as another example - I don't think anyone would claim that they are the hardest working people in society but they earn some of the most.

The problem you have is that you are directly comparing yourself to other people and what they get to keep or don't keep. This is what right wing politics does - gets everyone worked up about scrambling up the ladder and who has worked harder or who gets to have more or less money. And people never realise that the problem is not the person who earns less but keeps a greater % of their income, or who claims benefits even though they may be capable of working, or whoever - they are small fry in the grand scheme of our economy. The problem is the big multinationals who pay no tax and the offshore havens that are all perfectly legal in this country because they benefit people who also happen to be major funders of the Tory party. The vacant homes in London owned by Russian billionaires who are never here. The privitisation of national services to enable share holders to make a profit at taxpayer's expense. As long as you're distracted by how much tax is paid by someone who earns £20k a year then they hope you won't notice the big boys.

Finally, just for clarification - just because someone is too polite to call someone else a cunt, doesn't mean they can't be a cunt themselves. Or vote for cunts. I'm not calling your Dad a cunt, to be clear - I've never met the man. But it is logically quite possible for him to never have called someone a cunt but to still a) think it about someone else or even b) actually be one himself.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

The spite and venom always seem to be coming from the left/centre left...

Yes, because the people on the left and the centre left are the ones who care about the people who are being fucked over by the right.

Labour voters are not condemning people to death with their policies, which is probably why there's not much vicious language about them.

[quote AwaAnBileYerHeid]@Pumperthepumper do you think that because someone votes for a certain party, they have to agree with every single policy?[/quote]
No. But the free school meals is only the latest in a very, very long line in the number of ways the Tories have shafted the poor and protected their own. But you know that.

@Pumperthepumper and @Ohalrightthen just listen to yourselves. The intolerance you show and assumptions you make about someone you don't know based purely on where they places their cross on a ballot paper are awful.

You sound more intolerant and uncaring than any Tories I know.

awa thanks for dealing with that point for me! Seems people don’t understand that in voting Tory that doesn’t mean every single policy is agreed with.

I know many generous and lovely Tory voters. This thread has highlighted how truly vile left wingers can be. And yes, I’m sure the tories can be too, but we’ve not seen much of that on this thread have we..!

Start by being decent yourself before making assumptions about the generosity and caring nature of others. Wow this thread has taken a turn!

I’m still not sure what to do about my friend but after all this I think I might just deal with it myself! Nobody seems to see past the name calling

"I’m pretty sure that happened after the votes and my dad didn’t directly vote for that.

But good to know you can only define someone by the way they vote."

Are you hopelessly naive? He did - that is is the outcome of his choice to vote Tory. Perhaps if your dad had been asked yes or no he would have said, oh yes, let them have their £15 for the week. But ideologically a Tory vote is a vote to let them go hungry. Your dad knew that.

"if they don’t agree with you politically just use disgusting language and be nasty about their family."
Don't judge me by your own standards.

"My Tory friends support and help fund a project for the homeless"
If they hadn't voted Tory, perhaps they wouldn't have needed to. Charity is very much part of the ideology.

[quote saraclara]**@Pumperthepumper* and @Ohalrightthen* just listen to yourselves. The intolerance you show and assumptions you make about someone you don't know based purely on where they places their cross on a ballot paper are awful.

You sound more intolerant and uncaring than any Tories I know.[/quote]
What have I said that’s factually incorrect? If you vote Tory, this is what you’ve voted for.

Fundraising for charity means absolutely nothing when you’ve voted time and time again for a party that has proved over and over again that they do not care about the poorest in society. Again, that’s a fact.

@tabicae

And lights I assume everything you do is for the benefit of others and with compassion for everyone else? Voting to protect money you have earned - a key reason people vote Tory - is not something to be embarrassed about. It doesn’t mean someone isn’t caring or compassionate towards others.

Hmmm. I don’t want to bash you, I understand the point of your OP, and think it’s a shame that respectful political debate is so hard.

However I strongly disagree with you. How is it possible to really care about others - by that I mean people you don’t know - when you vote not to share wealth with people who are vulnerable and lack the privilege you have. Usually through no fault of their own. You are lucky to have been born into a wealthy family who offered you various opportunities. Many aren’t and Tory policies tend to keep them vulnerable and unable to progress. We are high earners and I believe we should be taxed more, not less. We don’t need to have so much more than everyone else, and frankly we don’t work as hard as many people do who are on low incomes. Do you ever imagine what it is like working on zero hour contracts and holding several jobs, and still struggling to maintain a basic standard of living for your family? I’m sure your dad cares for the people around him but his voting choices reflect his values and I also judge him on this. I understand you being hurt at your friend implying he is a cunt and I wouldn’t do this to a friend.

But also I don’t have any friends who are Tory voters! Actually I had a curious experience a couple of years ago when a friends boyfriend admitted he had voted Tory, and he came across as having very left leaning values. I stifled my inner ‘oh my god what is wrong with you’ and asked lots of questions - it turned out that he was supportive of reducing inequality and many lefty policies, but he believed that the Tory policies around the economy were a better way of achieving this. I think he was completely misguided on this, but it was an eye opener for me to meet a real life Tory and not consider them to be a heartless and selfish person. I imagine if we could have a lot more dialogue we would understand more how both the left and right caricature one another. But I’d still love your dad to go and volunteer in a good bank.

Sorry that is a long answer but basically I understand that you can be a Tory and not evil, hence your upset, but Tory policies are often reprehensible in my view so I have sympathy with your friend.