Labour friend awful about tories

[tabicae]

NC as probably outing. I have a very close friend who is there for me though everything really and I am for them. We have always avoided politics and have had very different backgrounds. Given what’s been going on recently I’m politics, it’s been hard to avoid the topic.

Whilst I personally have no massive political leaning and can see both sides without coming down massively on either one, she knows that I was brought up in a Tory household and although I have never disclosed who I would vote for, she knows I am on the fence about things and like some Tory polices and some labour. A lot of my childhood was based around things she seems to strongly dislike and is open about...private schools, inheritance, private health, second homes etc.

Anyway..getting to the point. She has become VERY vocal about these things. Slagging off private education and people who went to them (always careful to say ‘there are exceptions’). Being critical of second homes yet happily staying in my parents second homes free of charge for a holiday. And it goes on like that.

She has recently become quite vulgar about tories, calling them and Boris c*nts, etc. I know I feel defensive about this as my dad is a very generous, caring man and he voted for Boris. It feels quite personal.

I’ve noticed that it seems ok on social media and in conversation to being vulgar about tories/anyone who aligns themselves with any Tory policies, yet it is unacceptable to ever do the same if you are a Tory talking about a labour supporter. In fact I am yet to hear a Tory speak so awfully about someone who votes for another party. I feel like her comments are getting in between our friendship and whilst I always knew we differed on this topic it has never ever been an issue between us.

I’m not sure what to say really...maybe she’s always had this view of me and my family and is only now vocalising it? Would you address it?

The problem is that people who don't consider themselves left wing because they voted for labour under Blair and miliband but not corbyn, or voted Lib Dem, see threads like this and the insults aimed at anyone who isn't a fully paid up member of momentum.

It a) puts them off voting labour because they're never going to be pure enough so they might as well vote for their own benefit instead and
b) they lie to pollsters so the left wing has an inflated sense of its own success and is then taken by surprise.

Most people are not on twitter and don't post about politics on Facebook so twitter rants are purity spirals preaching to the converted already, not winning over any new voters.

Labour has to persuade some current conservatives voters to vote for them if they ever want to be in power. If they don't, they should fuck off and make room for a non conservative political party which is prepared to win, even if it means some compromise.

[quote saraclara]**@Pumperthepumper* and @Ohalrightthen* just listen to yourselves. The intolerance you show and assumptions you make about someone you don't know based purely on where they places their cross on a ballot paper are awful.

You sound more intolerant and uncaring than any Tories I know.[/quote]
How a person votes is a reflection of their values, beliefs and priorities.

The "it's just politics" spiel is deeply privileged. It's just politics to you because it doesn't actually impact on you that heavily. To me and my loved ones, it's life and death. The fact that you either don't see that or don't care about it tells me all i need to know about who you are as a person.

If you’re left wing and hate the tories, why not put your points across in a civilised way? That practices what you preach - care, generosity of spirit, understanding?

Just something to consider.

She sounds like a joy sponge. Does she make you happy? Maybe the friendship has just reached a natural end. You don't have to stick with people who are hard work.

@tabicae

awa thanks for dealing with that point for me! Seems people don’t understand that in voting Tory that doesn’t mean every single policy is agreed with.

I know many generous and lovely Tory voters. This thread has highlighted how truly vile left wingers can be. And yes, I’m sure the tories can be too, but we’ve not seen much of that on this thread have we..!

Start by being decent yourself before making assumptions about the generosity and caring nature of others. Wow this thread has taken a turn!

I’m still not sure what to do about my friend but after all this I think I might just deal with it myself! Nobody seems to see past the name calling

It’s quite telling that you can’t argue with any point put to you about say, bedroom tax or massive cuts in disability benefits, or how the most vulnerable will be the most shafted over Brexit.

I agree your friend is being really unkind and not very er, friend like! It sounds like she’s frustrated with politics like many but is taking it out on your which is quite immature IMO.

I think no matter how passionately she feels she should be able to communicate her views in an appropriate way and she’s obviously having a go at you because of your background or doesn’t realise she’s upsetting you - neither are ideal!

I also think she’s a total hypocrite for using your parents second home.

I’ve never once voted Tory btw, always gone between labour and Lib Dem.

It’s actually shocking how cruel, nasty comments are made about people and kids even !! who are from privileged backgrounds

Oh, I know. The persecution of people who have been to private school is a terrible problem in our society. It's almost as though some think that buying influence is a bad idea. They're very mean, OP, very mean.

@tabicae

If you’re left wing and hate the tories, why not put your points across in a civilised way? That practices what you preach - care, generosity of spirit, understanding?

Just something to consider.

I do practice what i preach. It's why i never vote Tory.

The fact is, OP, the Tories are a party that represent selfishness. Individualism over society. Profit over people. And you, by saying you would vote differently if your finances would be impacted by your vote, have clearly aligned yourself with that level of selfishness.

Your friend shouldn't be insulting the fact you went to private school as that wasn't your choice. But quite frankly you seem incredibly lacking in self-awareness about Tory policies. If you vote Tory, or sympathise with Tories, fine - own it though. It clearly shows you are a selfish person and don't care about others and social justice as much as a bit extra in your pocket.

In fact I am yet to hear a Tory speak so awfully about someone who votes for another party

Oh yes, the tories. Shy as ever they are.

Even if they didnt slag off labour voters by name calling (which they absolutely do) look how they treat the most vulnerable in society, the poor, the disabled etc that shows you what they and people who vote for them, really think.

I think people are much more passionate about the current government due to their blatantly obvious failings and corruption.
There are also a lot of issues with Brexit and coronavirus, I do think people are more passionate then ever about politics at the moment, which is being highlighted.

She is entitled to her views, if they mirror some of your upringing, that doesn't make it nasty it just a bit raw to you.
What does she say when you told her she didn't mind benefitting from your families second home ??

No generous, caring person could vote for a party that cheered when they voted against nhs pay rises and won.
If you're not happy with your friend not being okay with supporting people like that then end your friendship.

If you’re left wing and hate the tories, why not put your points across in a civilised way? That practices what you preach - care, generosity of spirit, understanding?

Thing is, inequality makes people cross. Is that a surprising revelation for you?

OP you are failing to understand why some people are so angry. A minority of people will just always be tribal and shouty but this current conservative government are doing some pretty shitty things right now. And that was to be expected with BJ in power - how anyone could vote for him in good faith is beyond me. If you are a kind and generous person you could not possibly expect BJ to reflect those values in government unless you are either seriously naive or have been living under a rock for the past decade.

Your friend is probably very angry because she has seen the damage that is being done by this government to people who are already vulnerable. Doing charity work etc is lovely but as pp have said, charities shouldn't need to exist in a country like ours. Especially not ones that have to provide basic necessities for citizens e.g. food banks, homeless shelters. These should be provided by the government given that we are in the top 10 richest countries in the world.

Kinder, gentle politics in action, this is the same type of posters who pretend it is the tories who are openly causing division.

This is why MN is seen in wider internet circles as a complete joke with regard to political discussion, and why people laugh at when the likes of the mojority of the posters on this thread talk about critical thinking.

And people pretend it has been overrun by 'uneducated' daily mail readers, threads like this show it's been overrun by 'uneducated' partisan people who get their knowledge from twitter.

When the next election comes round and some of you wonder how you have never met a tory it might be time to do some self reflection, you should have done it last year or a decade ago but critical thinking isn't really showing as a strong point.

This thread is full of green ink rants it's comical in lacking in self awareness.

"If you’re left wing and hate the tories, why not put your points across in a civilised way? That practices what you preach - care, generosity of spirit, understanding?

Just something to consider."

Why don't you just ask your friend that? Why not just ask her to reign in her tone and language. And be prepared to defend your own tory-lite views?

Wanting to protect your finances and family and give your family the best in life doesn’t mean you are automatically a selfish person. We are going round in circles but what I will say is my parents live next door to a couple who are labour through and through. They campaign, they virtue signal. They live in a 3million pound house, have 4 brand new cars on the drive and throw parties regularly, pissing money down the drain on a weekly basis, claim disability allowance and avoid tax as much as possible, telling my dad new tips on a regular basis. They recently got in trouble for insurance fraud. My dad in comparison, has all the material things they have, yet spends his evenings doing online tutoring for free, for students at all schools, state and private, and at the weekend works driving delivering food to vulnerable families who cannot go out during the pandemic.

I’d do more research on your fellow labour voters, as in day to day lifestyle research. before making your bold assumptions. Of course, these two examples could be the only ones of Tory/labour. But probably not.

@tabicae

To be clear, I have not said poor people don’t work hard, they most likely work harder than most.

What I said was, when you’ve worked hard it is obviously going to pinch a bit to see a lot of those earnings disappear from you ie when you’re in a middle class with just higher than average wealth.

I’ve not once said someone who is poor doesn’t work hard

I am in exactly the position you just described and I like to see my earning 'disappear' as they can then 'reappear' where they are needed. To me this is more obvious than your position.

You are entitled to your view but it's not inevitable as you seem to be alluding to here. Many people with above average wealth, even if just above average, want to look after vulnerable members of society etc. and focus on that more than the 'cost' to them.

This sort of thinking enables the hard working but poorly paid people to also be looked after.

I probably benefit more from Tory polocies, but have always voted Labour, as I would like the poorest and vulnerable in society to be able to live with dignity. I would also love our brilliant public sector to be celebrated and properly funded, so that they can treat people with dignity. We are all just a car accident or a diagnosis away from being one of those vulnerable people.

Clapping for the NHS, receiving NHS ITU treatment, while simultaneously giving the Track & Trace contract to a private sector mate is the absolute lowest of the low in my book.

Of course, T&T has been a bloody disaster. LAs and Public have the expertise and the personal data there already. Experienced staff who stay in the sector because they (we - I should declare an interest) believe in what they're doing. What were they thinking?

If your dad’s generous and caring you’ll find it very easy to explain the generous caring reasoning behind being his voting decisions. Explanation given, job done.

It’s easy to defend ethical choices. Give it a go.

policies

@tabicae

Wanting to protect your finances and family and give your family the best in life doesn’t mean you are automatically a selfish person. We are going round in circles but what I will say is my parents live next door to a couple who are labour through and through. They campaign, they virtue signal. They live in a 3million pound house, have 4 brand new cars on the drive and throw parties regularly, pissing money down the drain on a weekly basis, claim disability allowance and avoid tax as much as possible, telling my dad new tips on a regular basis. They recently got in trouble for insurance fraud. My dad in comparison, has all the material things they have, yet spends his evenings doing online tutoring for free, for students at all schools, state and private, and at the weekend works driving delivering food to vulnerable families who cannot go out during the pandemic.

I’d do more research on your fellow labour voters, as in day to day lifestyle research. before making your bold assumptions. Of course, these two examples could be the only ones of Tory/labour. But probably not.

For my family (dh, dd and I) we'd do better under a Tory government. However I will never vote Tory. I vote for the people who aren't as comfortable as me, I vote for the children who need the nhs, I vote for my sister who is a single mum to 3 children and can't afford to work and pay for childcare. I vote for my niece who has severe learning difficulties. I vote for my neighbour who was made redundant. It isn't about just you. It's about what's better for the country as a whole. If you think that's a conservative government, fair enough.

I absolutely agree with you OP. As this thread has yet again proved, some on the left are incapable of debating sensibly without resorting to insults and name-calling.
Posters such as these cast themselves in the role of caring and compassionate people, yet can't see the irony of their vile insults to those who disagree.
I have a friend like yours. We were both part of a social group and she has effectively ruined our circle because no-one wants to be lectured over dinner. Shame. She has a professional job yet her Facebook page is full of links to echo chamber websites, rants about Tories laughing at the poor and claims that Boris is evil. Scary how someone who purports to be intelligent approaches politics in the manner of a 15-year-old.

Your dad sounds like a lovely person, who behaves with

But his voting choices still cause massive harm

I think you are just having a bit of a problem accepting that.

He, and his neighbours both sound like hypocrites to me.

I can appreciate that someone may feel cross about politics. I feel cross about the comments made on this thread.

But again, no need for abusive language, is there? This is what I can’t comprehend. Be civil, practise what you preach, be generous and caring even if you are angry about politics. It’s crass, vulgar and I can promise you, will not entice people to vote for your favoured party. Have an intelligent discussion instead.