Labour friend awful about tories

[tabicae]

NC as probably outing. I have a very close friend who is there for me though everything really and I am for them. We have always avoided politics and have had very different backgrounds. Given what’s been going on recently I’m politics, it’s been hard to avoid the topic.

Whilst I personally have no massive political leaning and can see both sides without coming down massively on either one, she knows that I was brought up in a Tory household and although I have never disclosed who I would vote for, she knows I am on the fence about things and like some Tory polices and some labour. A lot of my childhood was based around things she seems to strongly dislike and is open about...private schools, inheritance, private health, second homes etc.

Anyway..getting to the point. She has become VERY vocal about these things. Slagging off private education and people who went to them (always careful to say ‘there are exceptions’). Being critical of second homes yet happily staying in my parents second homes free of charge for a holiday. And it goes on like that.

She has recently become quite vulgar about tories, calling them and Boris c*nts, etc. I know I feel defensive about this as my dad is a very generous, caring man and he voted for Boris. It feels quite personal.

I’ve noticed that it seems ok on social media and in conversation to being vulgar about tories/anyone who aligns themselves with any Tory policies, yet it is unacceptable to ever do the same if you are a Tory talking about a labour supporter. In fact I am yet to hear a Tory speak so awfully about someone who votes for another party. I feel like her comments are getting in between our friendship and whilst I always knew we differed on this topic it has never ever been an issue between us.

I’m not sure what to say really...maybe she’s always had this view of me and my family and is only now vocalising it? Would you address it?

lights I hear what you’re saying but imagine you have worked and sacrificed a lot to be in a particular position of earning, only to have that taken away in bulk in comparison to someone who has worked significantly less hard? It’s not that clear cut of course but I think unless you are in that position you can’t imagine how that feels. It’s not always a case of poor v millionaires, there’s plenty in between who are hit hard by labour policies.

lights I think that is the point.. you say once you have enough, genuinely enough...

And there are lots that have almost enough but it is constantly taken away by labour policies. That’s where the problem lies.

So you think only people on high wages work hard then OP? What about the people on minimum wage who slog their guts out working?

I'd get rid. Sounds like she isn't much of a friend for if she was, she'd appreciate that it was hardly your fault that your Dad had a decent job or you went to private school or received an inheritance, and she'd realise how she was coming across and rein it in a little. Sounds like she's sniping, to me. If your family and you are so insufferable, tell her to piss off.

"I feel defensive about this as my dad is a very generous, caring man and he voted for Boris. "

The problem is that he also, therefore, voted for all sorts of things that are the opposite, deliberately and ideologically, of being generous and caring.

"Calling Boris a cunt from Eton is so utterly disgusting and narrow minded and cruel to those students who currently attend that school,"
They will never know, and if they did hear that I am sure they wouldn't care. And I am not sure it is a narrow-minded comment. A little coarse perhaps.

Ouch, OP you have lost me.

Some of the hardest working people i know are poor.

@tabicae not the original point of your post but it does sound like you only didn't vote Tory because you don't currently earn enough to benefit from most of their policies. You have implied that if your circumstances were to change (i.e. you were to earn more money in future) then you might consider voting for them i.e. because you would stand to benefit from their policies.

I know this might shock you but that is not how everyone votes. If there was an election now and there was a party who proposed that I should pay more tax than i currently do (based on my current earnings) then I would probably vote for them. I don't think I pay enough tax given what I earn. I would rather that people like me who can afford to, pay more tax to improve our public services.

I wouldn't vote based on who would benefit me directly - I'm likely to be fine under most governments because I'm lucky to earn a fairly decent salary. I vote based on what I think is best for society.

OP - just point out to her that whatever the Tories may may not do/be like/have done, Labour can hardly claim the moral high ground.

Perhaps things will improve under Keir, but up until now they haven't for a long time been the party that cares for the oppressed or vulnerable.

Obviously there's the racism (anti semitism, and the attacks on Priti Patel, Sajid Jaivid, and Sean Bailey).

Then there's Blair and Brown's war on the disabled (which began when the Department of Social Security was replaced by the disabled erasing Department of Work and Pensions).

Here are reports from the time - from both the left and the right.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2001/jul/05/politicalnews.politics

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1471533/Blair-faces-revolt-over-plans-for-23-a-week-cut-in-disability-benefit.html

welfareweekly.com/tony-blair-destroyed-britains-faith-benefits-system-claim-researchers/

I find vile antisemitism and a pledge to house rapists with women in prison to be pretty problematic. But I don’t call Labour voters cunts. It’s juvenile and doesn’t shift anyone’s thinking.

It’s a problem with current political discourse. Your friend is just another tribal ranter. No different to the tribe of pro lifers or Extinction Rebellion. All convinced of their righteousness. Which matters to them far more than listening.

It’s why we ended up with Brexit.

@tabicae

lights I hear what you’re saying but imagine you have worked and sacrificed a lot to be in a particular position of earning, only to have that taken away in bulk in comparison to someone who has worked significantly less hard? It’s not that clear cut of course but I think unless you are in that position you can’t imagine how that feels. It’s not always a case of poor v millionaires, there’s plenty in between who are hit hard by labour policies.

I don't really believe these 'worked hard' discourses TBH. The people paid the least in my workplace work hardest as that's what they need to do to pay the bills. I worked differently to get a professional qualification and was fortunate to be able to do so because I am reasonably academic - which is not something I take credit for. The 'I worked hard' myth is just another way for people to justify keeping a disproportionate amount of the resources often isn't it?

I don't think I said it was poor v millionaires. There are 'poor' people who vote Tory and rich who vote labour. I think the point is that Tories do not appear to be caring for the vulnerable and do not appear to be aware of the devastation their policies are wreaking (in that if they did care then they'd care about that).

Apologies to Shaun (not Sean) Bailey for misspelling his name in my previous post.

katie no of course not. But when you are working hard to have most of what you earn taken away, that is bound to feel unfair?

ihatemyself it’s narrow minded to tar a load of kids with the same brush and be cruel about them. And they wouldn’t care anyway? Really? They’re just kids, stop being so awful.

It’s possible your friend, like so many people in the UK, is seeing the damage the Tories are doing to other people’s lives. It’s possible she’s reached the end of the road re-being friends with a person with Tory leanings so isn’t keeping her views to herself any more. It’s very hard having different political views to a good friend, especially now things are so polarised too. I’m only guessing (intelligently though!) but it’s a situation I have experienced in my own life.

@tabicae

lights I think that is the point.. you say once you have enough, genuinely enough...

And there are lots that have almost enough but it is constantly taken away by labour policies. That’s where the problem lies.

Isn't there masses of data to show that those people are much more likely to suffer under a Tory government.?

OP is either painfully politically naive or totally disingenuous.

Oooh and just seen your update. You think people who work the hardest earn the most? Or that people who earn less don't work as hard as you?

What about if you've worked REALLY hard at something that gives fuck all benefit to society? Should you keep more of your money than someone who has worked fairly hard but at a job that is essential to society, like a teacher?

It's a slippery slope... I think you may have absorbed more of Daddy's politics than you think.

Tories ARE cunts so I’m missing your point....

Uh uh, I thought this was a thread about a friend who keeps telling awful stories about labour (and birth).

@PersonaNonGarter exactly. Standing on their moral high-ground, screeching the C word at the other half of the voting population. Laughable how they can never see the raging hypocrisy.

OP, I'd bin your "friend". Anyone who is that obsessed with politics on either side is to be avoided anyway. Your and your dad sound lovely.

Yeah, I think your friendship is doomed, tbh.

It is entirely possible to have friendships with people with whom you have politically opposing views, but for it to work both people need to be equally robust and confident in those opinions; or to agree to never, ever, ever discuss them.

To be clear, I have not said poor people don’t work hard, they most likely work harder than most.

What I said was, when you’ve worked hard it is obviously going to pinch a bit to see a lot of those earnings disappear from you ie when you’re in a middle class with just higher than average wealth.

I’ve not once said someone who is poor doesn’t work hard

@SmartPinkShoes

Uh uh, I thought this was a thread about a friend who keeps telling awful stories about labour (and birth). blush**

I hate people preaching to me about their political views in person, online is fine. Personally I don’t understand how any decent person could have put on their coat and shoes and driven to to polling station and voted for a party who did what the Tories did to disabled people. I know you’re supposed to look at the package as a whole, but their are certain moral lines i won’t cross. Another example would be my choice to vote for a third party after both Labour and Tories supported the war in Iraq. These are all literally life and death policies and I can’t put my name to such like.

@Mollscroll

I find vile antisemitism and a pledge to house rapists with women in prison to be pretty problematic. But I don’t call Labour voters cunts. It’s juvenile and doesn’t shift anyone’s thinking.

It’s a problem with current political discourse. Your friend is just another tribal ranter. No different to the tribe of pro lifers or Extinction Rebellion. All convinced of their righteousness. Which matters to them far more than listening.

It’s why we ended up with Brexit.

Right.

Well just on a practical level, shaming people into voting your way doesn't work because you aren't with them in the voting booth.

It’s actually shocking how cruel, nasty comments are made about people and kids even !! who are from privileged backgrounds yet anyone who votes Tory is a cunt.

I guess that’s the difference - my dad is far too lovely to ever call a state school kid from a poor area a cunt, or be nasty about their parents.