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ADs are braving the wind and the rain

996 replies

CruCru · 30/10/2020 09:12

Hi all

I couldn’t find the new thread so here is one I set up. It’s windy out there! Glad I weeded my flowerbeds a couple of days ago.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
MissEWeatherwax · 01/11/2020 15:28

I’ve just seen that on thread. Also the protect the NHS bit, when my DD broke are foot, the person(nurse) putting the pot on, said most broken bones are actually caused at home. People falling out bed, down stairs.
It’s straight back to March isn’t it.
Checked the guidance and my DD can visit her DGF at his allotment.

mightbealittlebitmad · 01/11/2020 15:31

Got a message today from my doctor's to say they are closed and can no longer accept anyone. Is this actually real?! I went the other day to pick up a prescription, empty waiting room, got shouted at for trying to walk in and had to communicate through an intercom whilst the receptionist was stood looking at me. Just felt totally bizarre.

JamSarnie · 01/11/2020 15:32

The few times I have ended up in A&E have all been accidents either at home, in my garden or embarrassingly at the end of my road. It makes me laugh when they say stay home because unnecessary driving may cause an accident and you will end up in A&E. ummm no actually staying at home, being bored shitless and doing DIY or exercise increases the chances of that happening.

I think those that froth on here about following their imaginary made up bollocks of a rule probably don't get out much because if I talked rubbish like that with my colleagues I would be a laughing stock.

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 15:33

Just seen this in case helps anyone

Children under school age exempt from some Covid-19 rules, says Health Minister
Health Minister Nadine Dorries has said children under school age who are with their parents will not count towards the limit on two people meeting outside.

Children and adults who are dependent on round-the-clock care, such as those with severe disabilities, will also be included, she added.

Children under school age who are with their parents will not count towards the limit on two people meeting outside. This will mean that a parent can see a friend or family member with their baby or young children.

— Nadine Dorries 🇬🇧#StayAlert (@NadineDorries) November 1, 2020

JamSarnie · 01/11/2020 15:34

@mightbealittlebitmad

Got a message today from my doctor's to say they are closed and can no longer accept anyone. Is this actually real?! I went the other day to pick up a prescription, empty waiting room, got shouted at for trying to walk in and had to communicate through an intercom whilst the receptionist was stood looking at me. Just felt totally bizarre.
That's terrible.

A quote from the gov site about next weeks restrictions actually say

A number of public services will also stay open and you will be able to leave home to visit them. These include:
the NHS and medical services like GPs. We are supporting the NHS to safely carry out urgent and non-urgent services and it is vital anyone who thinks they need any kind of medical care comes forward and seeks help.

HitchikersGuide · 01/11/2020 15:35

Same posters wittering on again and again about how we would all feel if we needed a hospital bed. Well, I want to say, exactly the same way as I'd feel without the pandemic, which is that my chances of getting a hospital bed and decent care are OK-ish, being a healthy middle aged person. So I would hope that in the scenario they are always positing, I'd probably have a better chance, all things being equal, than my 87 year old mother, and a marginally worse chance than DC. Ffs. It's the repetition that's getting to me. It's just groundhog day out there.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 01/11/2020 15:36

I bought a convertible car in September and I've already decided that if we get a nice sunny day I'm going out with the roof down and the heated seats on - I've bought myself a bobble hat especially! I daren't mention that anywhere else!

I woke up feeling really down today. I know my problems are minimal compared to others so I apologise in advance. I dreamt I was in Lyme Regis, which is my favourite place in the world and when I woke up it hit me I have no idea when I'll be able to get there again. We're supposed to be going on December 4th but that's probably unlikely now. I've spent a while looking at houses there as maybe we need to move permanently!

thenightsky · 01/11/2020 15:37

@TrustTheGeneGenie

Can I add a song to the ads playlist? In light of my lockdown weight gain - fat bottomed girls by Queen Grin
Me too Sad

I've just realised that my favourite spot on the sofa (far end) has gone all flat compared to the other seats. Shock

Tonight we have something called The BanZai Japanese Street Food van coming to the village hall. My arse has no hope of shrinking.

HitchikersGuide · 01/11/2020 15:39

Sorry to be ranting. I just can't believe the world we're living in. How can this be?

BogRollBOGOF · 01/11/2020 15:39

@Orangeblossom7777

Just seen this in case helps anyone

Children under school age exempt from some Covid-19 rules, says Health Minister
Health Minister Nadine Dorries has said children under school age who are with their parents will not count towards the limit on two people meeting outside.

Children and adults who are dependent on round-the-clock care, such as those with severe disabilities, will also be included, she added.

Children under school age who are with their parents will not count towards the limit on two people meeting outside. This will mean that a parent can see a friend or family member with their baby or young children.

— Nadine Dorries 🇬🇧#StayAlert (@NadineDorries) November 1, 2020

Fantastic. I'm not so worried about mine as they'll get social stimulation at school, but particularly for babies/ toddlers that don't have access to an educational setting, they and their mother carer should not be denied access to social contact beyond their household.
Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 15:39

Quite satisfying to share that about the children to the thread as they were saying No it is just you one person, etc etc

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 15:41

Yes it means mums and babies / toddlers can meet up albeit outside (mind you at that age used to do that with toddlers anyway who tended to be a bit tricky inside with sharing etc I remember)

Sonicthehedgehogg · 01/11/2020 15:50

Thankyou @Orangeblossom7777 re: meeting someone with a toddler in tow. I was dreading the long days with an active 19m old who won't sleep unless it's in the car or pushchair and getting out for a walk is my only chance of seeing my family. I have a friend who is a military wife who also has a toddler, and her DH goes away for six months soon, so it will be invaluable for her too.

BogRollBOGOF · 01/11/2020 15:50

I used to find shuffling around a park at 0.45 mph less stressful than being indoors!

Still do Grin

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 16:05

Yeah I remember meeting a friend with our toddlers in the rain in the park just to escape the house..

BogRollBOGOF · 01/11/2020 16:44

I'm so glad that all those sanctimonious twats being really condescending about mums of young children meeting another adult are categorically wrong Grin

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 01/11/2020 16:52

There's a whole thread of people saying you can't travel for exercise despite the guidelines saying you can.

TheOrchidKiller · 01/11/2020 16:54

Saw loads of families with young kids at the park as I passed by. Good for them.

Tempted to buy advent calenders for November. The only flaw is there won't be enough doors for the whole 28 day period. Sod it. We can have extra sweets (or gin) for then.

I bought Christmas cards today. Have never bought them so early, which adds to the chances of me putting them somewhere safe & losing them! Fairy lights are up in the kitchen.

RobinHobb · 01/11/2020 16:54

Hmmm
Will play grounds close?

RobinHobb · 01/11/2020 16:57

Yes of course they will
I am wondering what to do with the kids when they inevitably have a case in class and have to isolate
Meh

ADs are braving the wind and the rain
JamSarnie · 01/11/2020 16:57

Is everyone bracing themselves for the threads about reporting their neighbours for breaking the rules?

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 16:57

No - Playgrounds to stay open

MercyBooth · 01/11/2020 16:58

Found this article this morning.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8899277/Professor-Sunetra-Gupta-reveals-crisis-ruthlessly-weaponised.html

A contagion of hatred and hysteria: Oxford epidemiologist PROFESSOR SUNETRA GUPTA tells how she has been intimidated and shamed for backing shielding instead of lockdown

Lockdown is a blunt, indiscriminate policy that forces the poorest and most vulnerable people to bear the brunt of the fight against coronavirus. As an infectious diseases epidemiologist, I believe there has to be a better way.

That is why, earlier this month, with two other international scientists, I co-authored a proposal for an alternative approach — one that shields those most at risk while enabling the rest of the population to resume their ordinary lives to some extent.

I expected debate and disagreement about our ideas, published as the Great Barrington Declaration.

As a scientist, I would welcome that. After all, science progresses through its ideas and counter-ideas.

But I was utterly unprepared for the onslaught of insults, personal criticism, intimidation and threats that met our proposal. The level of vitriol and hostility, not just from members of the public online but from journalists and academics, has horrified me.

I am not a politician. The hurly-burly of political life and being in the eye of the media do not appeal to me at all.

I am first and foremost a scientist; one who is far more comfortable sitting in my office or laboratory than in front of a television camera.

Of course, I do have deeply held political ideals — ones that I would describe as inherently Left-wing. I would not, it is fair to say, normally align myself with the Daily Mail.

I have strong views about the distribution of wealth, about the importance of the Welfare State, about the need for publicly owned utilities and government investment in nationalised industries.

But Covid-19 is not a political phenomenon. It is a public health issue — indeed, it is one so serious that the response to it has already led to a humanitarian crisis. So I have been aghast to see a political rift open up, with outright abuse meted out to those who, like me, question the orthodoxy.

At the heart of our proposal is the recognition that mass lockdowns cause enormous damage.

We are already seeing how current lockdown policies are producing devastating effects on short and long-term public health.

The results — to name just a few — include lower childhood vaccination rates, worsening cardiovascular disease outcomes, fewer cancer screenings and deteriorating mental health.

Such pitfalls of national lockdowns must not be ignored, especially when it is the working class and younger members of society who carry the heaviest burden.

I was also deeply concerned that lockdowns only delay the inevitable spread of the virus. Indeed, we believe that a better way forward would be to target protective measures at specific vulnerable groups, such as the elderly in care homes.

Of course, there will be challenges, such as where people are being cared for in their own multi-generational family homes.

I am certainly not pretending I have all the answers, but these issues need to be discussed and thrashed out thoroughly.

That is why I have found it so frustrating how, in recent weeks, proponents of lockdown policies have seemed intent on shutting down debate rather than promoting reasoned discussion.

It is perplexing to me that so many refuse even to consider the potential benefits of allowing non-vulnerable citizens, such as the young, to go about their lives and risk infection, when in doing so they would build up herd immunity and thereby protect the lives of vulnerable citizens.

Yet rather than engage in serious, rational discussion with us, our critics have dismissed our ideas as ‘pixie dust’ and ‘wishful thinking’.

This refusal to cherish the value of the scientific method strikes at the heart of everything I, as a scientist, hold dear. To me, the reasoned exchange of ideas is the basis of civilised society.

So I was left stunned after being invited on to a mid-morning radio programme recently, only for a producer to warn me minutes before we went on air that I was not to mention the Great Barrington Declaration. The producer repeated the warning and indicated that this was an instruction from a senior broadcasting executive.

I demanded an explanation and, with seconds to go, was told that the public wouldn’t be familiar with the meaning of the phrase ‘Great Barrington Declaration’.

And this was not an isolated experience. A few days later, another national radio station approached my office to set up an interview, then withdrew the invitation. They felt, on reflection, that giving airtime to me would ‘not be in the national interest’.

But the Great Barrington Declaration represents a heartfelt attempt by a group of academics with decades of experience in this field to limit the harm of lockdown. I cannot conceive how anyone can construe this as ‘against the national interest’.

Moreover, matters certainly are not helped by outlets such as The Guardian, which has repeatedly published opinion pieces making factually incorrect and scientifically flawed statements, as well as borderline defamatory comments about me, while refusing to give our side of the debate an opportunity to present our view.

I am surprised, given the importance of the issues at stake — not least the principle of fair, balanced journalism — that The Guardian would not want to present all the evidence to its readers. After all, how else are we to encourage proper, frank debate about the science?

On social media, meanwhile, much of the discourse has lacked any decorum whatsoever.

I have all but stopped using Twitter, but I am aware that a number of academics have taken to using it to make personal attacks on my character, while my work is dismissed as ‘pseudo- science’. Depressingly, our critics have also taken to ridiculing the Great Barrington Declaration as ‘fringe’ and ‘dangerous’.

But ‘fringe’ is a ridiculous word, implying that only mainstream science matters. If that were the case, science would stagnate. And dismissing us as ‘dangerous’ is equally unhelpful, not least because it is an inflammatory, emotional term charged with implications of irresponsibility. When it is hurled around by people with influence, it becomes toxic.

But this pandemic is an international crisis. To shut down the discussion with abuse and smears — that is truly dangerous.

Yet of all the criticisms flung at us, the one I find most upsetting is the accusation that we are indulging in ‘policy-based evidence-making’ — in other words, drumming up facts to fit our ideological agenda.

And that ideology, according to some, is one of Right-wing libertarian extremism.

According to Wikipedia, for instance, the Great Barrington Declaration was funded by a Right-wing think-tank with links to climate-change deniers.

It should be obvious to anyone that writing a short proposal and posting it on a website requires no great financing. But let me spell it out, since, apparently, I have to: I did not accept payment to co-author the Great Barrington Declaration.

Money has never been the motivation in my career. It hurts me profoundly that anyone who knows me, or has even a passing professional acquaintance, could believe for a minute that I would accept a clandestine payment for anything

I am very fortunate to have a house and garden I love, and I couldn’t ask for more material wealth than that. Far more important to me are my family and my work. Yet the abuse continues to flood in, increasingly of a personal nature.

I have been accused of not having the right expertise, of being a ‘theoretical’ epidemiologist with her head in the clouds. In fact, within my research group, we have a thriving laboratory that was one of the first to develop an antibody test for the coronavirus.

We were able to do so because we have been working for the past six years on a flu vaccine, using a combination of laboratory and theoretical techniques. Our technology has already been patented and licensed and presents a rare example of a mathematical model leading to the development of a vaccine.

Even more encouraging, however, is that there is now a groundswell of movements — Us For Them, PanData19 and The Price of Panic, to name but three — seeking to give a voice to those, like me, who believe that the collateral damage of lockdown can be worse than the virus itself.

On Thursday, a broad coalition was launched under the banner of Recovery. Drawing people from across the mainstream of political views, the movement is calling for balance and moderation in our response to Covid-19, backed by a proper public debate and a comprehensive public inquiry.

I am delighted that it has received such a level of support.

For, ultimately, lockdown is a luxury of the affluent; something that can be afforded only in wealthy countries — and even then, only by the better-off households in those countries.

One way to go about shifting our perspective would be to catalogue all the ways in which lockdowns across the world are damaging societies. At present, I am collaborating with a number of colleagues to do just this, under the banner www.collateralglobal.org.

For the simple truth is that Covid-19 will not just go away if we continue to impose enough meaningless restrictions on ourselves. And the longer we fail to recognise this, the worse will be the permanent economic damage — the brunt of which, again, will be borne by the disadvantaged and the young.

When I signed the Great Barrington Declaration on October 4, I did so with fellow scientists to express our view that national lockdowns won’t cure us of Covid.

Clearly, none of us anticipated such a vitriolic response.

The abuse that has followed has been nothing short of shameful.

But rest assured. Whatever they throw at us, it won’t do anything to sway me — or my colleagues — from the principles that sit behind what we wrote.

Professor Sunetra Gupta is an infectious disease epidemiologist and a professor of theoretical epidemiology at the Department of Zoology, University of Oxford. Her fee for this article has been donated to The Childhood Trust, a charity which fights to alleviate the impact of child poverty.

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 16:58

Oh sod it, Times is saying secondaries may have to close

MercyBooth · 01/11/2020 16:58

Sorry if its been posted already