Soft play situation - who is in the right?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Two mums meet at soft play with their 8yo girls - MumA & ChildA, and MumB & ChildB.

The slot is 2.5 hours, and after 2 hours ChildA comes to the adults crying because ChildB isn't playing with her anymore. ChildB approaches the table and MumA says "ChildA is upset because she says you won't play with her." ChildB responds "Yes I just want to play on my own for a bit". MumA says it's not nice to ditch your friend. MumB says that ChildB often gets tired of company and likes to do her own thing sometimes, and she's been taught to speak up if she ever feels like having alone time.

ChildA spends the rest of the session crying while ChildB goes to play on her own. ChildA says to her at the end that she isn't a good friend, which upsets ChildB.

Who was in the right, and should either mum have done anything differently?

Apologies about the jumbled up sentence there! Supposed to say: where does it end with regards to pleasing others at the detriment of your own happiness?

If you know your child is like that maybe make meet ups shorter so she doesn't need time to herself when in the company of other children? If I was child As mum I would have encouraged her to play with the other kids. I don't see your problem with child A expressing her feelings, this is what you are encouraging your daughter to do. You dont sound very kind the way you talk about child A by the way. Surely if you are a teacher you could have come up with something fun for child A to do instead? For example: why dont you show me how you get up that tower? Oh look what that child is doing, why dont you join in etc etc.

@Namechange313 I think what you are saying is right - if we don’t want to meet up with people we shouldn’t go. Definitely not and I know that can be hard to say, but I don’t agree to meet if I don’t fancy it - I just make a socially acceptable excuse!

But I do think once you have met up, you can’t just wander off. If I just let my child B do this I really think it would be bad for her - she’s already had a good friendship affected due to this. So I say to her if you don’t want to go, that’s fine. But if you are in then you are in and there are expected standards of behaviour

What we don’t now is how B spoke to A. If she said “I don’t want to play with you anymore”, which seems likely as she’s been encouraged to think that’s a reasonable thing to do, then she was rude and unkind. Totally understandable that A would be upset at being ditched by B, however B phrased it. How would an 8 yo not be upset at their friend having had enough of them. OP if you want to to do this kind of thing again I’d say 1.30hr max, the girls don’t sound like they are friends - A will probably be reluctant to meet up again. It’s fine to want your own space, but not to upset people who haven’t done anything wrong. Your talk of boundaries etc isn’t really relevant in this situation- you arranged for them to play together! If A was constantly turning up uninvited at your house then fair enough for your dd to say no, but not in this situation. You are doing her no favours by teaching her to stand up for herself without teaching her when it is / isn’t appropriate.

I'm raising a little girl in a patriarchal world where girls are socialised from practically the day they're born to be polite and compliant and not to ruffle feathers. I'm trying to counter that and raise a girl who will stick up for herself and own her bodily autonomy

I hear you but it’s very multifaceted. Be careful you don’t raise a child who is completely ridged when something doesn’t align with how there are feeling at that exact moment.

Young girls being able to have the tools to form very strong healthy friendships are so important especially in the teens and early twenties. This doesn’t mean learning to be a push over.

She was on a play date, she was their to play with another child. If she was burned out and wanted space that’s perfectly fine but that was the time to leave and go and have that space. You were over two hours in at that point.

Her choosing to stay and play by herself was selfish and not what was arranged. That wasn’t fair in the other child. Your dd was allowed to change the plan.

Honestly - if this was a play date from school I’d have said it was time to go. If it was a play date with one of my good friends and their kids which they have known each other from birth - they both would have been told to go away from the table other wise we’re leaving.

I see where you are coming from and I have had a similar upbringing to you. But I think whilst you are somewhere playing you do have a commitment to be with the other person. A bit like you wouldn’t have wander off from your adult friend and sat alone reading a book because you got bored of them!
I wouldn’t have told your daughter off if I was mum A but that’s because I am a people pleaser.
I would have cut it short. For my own children it’s not just the activity level of interest that determines how long we spend doing something but also how long they’ll cope interacting with the other children, because we all do get tired of others and that is perfectly okay.

I don’t think your child is rude or you are terrible. I do think you and the other mum had different ideas about the social agreement and her idea is more common probably.

I’m not sure there is an acceptable way on a play date of saying I don’t want to play with you.

My child B just wanders off but if the other child follows she doesn’t say I want to be alone - she just tries wandering off again somewhere new! I’m hoping that supporting her to come to me and say she’s feeling a bit tired and we then leave in a socially graceful way (hopefully) then is better - as it avoids the need to upset child A or parents at all

I didn't leave because, like I said before, neither of my kids were upset or wanted to leave and neither did I. I was enjoying my cuppa in peace. I'm not sure why I should have left because a child who wasn't mine got upset.

I think Child A's mother behaved incorrectly actually. I don't think you're doing your child any favours, but Child A's mum should have stuck up for her own child. Not by berating your child (which was inappropriate) but by bringing the playdate to an end when her child got upset and taking the poor girl home.

I have always always always taught her to speak up when she feels her personal boundaries are being compromised, and not just put up with being unsafe, uncomfortable or unhappy to avoid offending anyone. I'm raising a little girl in a patriarchal world where girls are socialised from practically the day they're born to be polite and compliant and not to ruffle feathers. I'm trying to counter that and raise a girl who will stick up for herself and own her bodily autonomy.

That's fine, but how would you feel if your DD went to play with another little girl who ignored her after a bit and, for example, read a book for the rest of the playdate? I bet you'd be telling your DD that she doesn't have to put herself in a situation where she feels neglected, uncomfortable and unhappy again. Well, if I were Child A's mum, that's what I'd be telling my child.

But obviously I tell my child B that if she agrees to go she has to stay and make an effort for a decent amount of time / this has got a lot easier now she has a watch!!

@TeenPlusTwenties

I have a child B.

In that situation I would have said to child A - B just needs a bit of space to herself sometimes, give her 5 or 10 minutes and she'll play with you again. And then I would have said to B - have 10 mins on your own if you need it and then play with A again.

A felt rejected, B (being only 8) didn't explain it very well, MumA took Umbridge, MumB could have been more explaining/placating to ChildA and made sure ChildB promised to play again in a bit.

A learning opportunity for all.

This

There is no right or wrong here but I dont think either parent handled it well. They went too much on the side of the child rather than going for a more neutral approach as above

where does it end with regards to pleasing others at the detriment of your own happiness I think that that is a good question and it gets easier as you grow up if you learn to handle things right. Like, avoiding people you don't want to see without ruffling feathers, making socially acceptable excuses, but treating people with respect and courtesy at the same time. It is much harder for children as they are still learning who they are and who their kind of people are, who they really want to be friends with and how to be a good friend, and this situation would have been ideal to teach both dc about all this. Like, saying to child A it is what it is but helping her feel better and find something else. mum A saying to child B that is ok, you can play on your own but it might mean child A won't want to meet up again. I am contradicting myself slightly here vs earlier posts - basically what is actually said depends on other things we only have limited info here

Sorry i meant mum B saying to child B that she can play on her own but...

@GlummyMcGlummerson i haven’t read every single comment so might be repeating something already said. I don’t think either child has done anything wrong and to an extent at the time neither mum. But I think both mums let the kids down by not discussing and agreeing limits and how to proceed should this occur especially if you are BFFs so know each other’s kids; I doubt this is the first time they are all hanging out together.
I treat my BFFs kids as I would mine and so if that’s how she would have spoken to her kid then I’d accept her speaking to mine same way and vice versa; but also expect her to know you well enough to know what’s acceptable with your parenting style. I just think you should both have been aware of the girls characters and defined expectations clearly before they started. Nothing wrong with wanting a break from a friend but equally nothing wrong with wanting to hang out with your friend as agreed. Next time make sure all kids know what to expect and agree an exit strategy if one child has had enough.

I think that your daughter was rude. The evidence for that is it hurt her friends feelings. You value your daughters preference for some time alone over her friends feelings of being rejected. My daughter also needs/likes time to her self especially in places like soft play. So I understand where your coming from and I think if your daughter had said she wanted to sit with the grown ups or read a book that would have been less rude than saying ‘I want to continue to play but not with you’.

Well, I agree with the OP. Kids go to soft play as a group. I don't see that as a contract that one particular child has agreed to spend the entire time glued to one of the others. No one is was telling child A that she couldn't play, just that child B wanted to do her own thing for a bit. Both girls feelings should be respected, but neither one of them gets to force the other into doing something they don't want to. I wonder how everyone would have reacted if child B had said she was physically tired and wanted to sit down with her mum for a bit.

That being said, I do also wonder if perhaps child B needs to learn some better ways of handling the situation. Definitely not by acquiescing, but by softening the blow and being more mindful of her friends feelings too, whilst maintaining her own boundaries.

I think @Clareflairmare is right that the mum A understanding is more common.

So in raising a B child I think I need to keep explaining this to her! As an adult my child B will have to make her own choices about whether to be a mum A or a mum B, but I want to make sure she understands the potential consequences of being a B in a mostly A world

@MangoBiscuit

Well, I agree with the OP. Kids go to soft play as a group. I don't see that as a contract that one particular child has agreed to spend the entire time glued to one of the others. No one is was telling child A that she couldn't play, just that child B wanted to do her own thing for a bit. Both girls feelings should be respected, but neither one of them gets to force the other into doing something they don't want to. I wonder how everyone would have reacted if child B had said she was physically tired and wanted to sit down with her mum for a bit.

That being said, I do also wonder if perhaps child B needs to learn some better ways of handling the situation. Definitely not by acquiescing, but by softening the blow and being more mindful of her friends feelings too, whilst maintaining her own boundaries.

Well if that’s the case I think play dates should become with a caveat of

‘We will meet you there buy at some point they may want to play by themselves and not with your child’

I think that would only be fair so the other child and parents can decide whether it’s worth going or not.

Do kids actually need anyone to play with in soft play? Isn't it just running around like maniacs? If my child had been child a I would have told them to go and amuse themselves or find someone else to play with. I don't think it's rude to want to be on your own for a bit in that situation. Would be different if child a had been invited to your house and child b was ignoring her - I would have had words with child b if they were mine then.

Well if that’s the case I think play dates should become with a caveat of

‘We will meet you there buy at some point they may want to play by themselves and not with your child’

I think that would only be fair so the other child and parents can decide whether it’s worth going or not.

Yes, that's a good suggestion.

Why don't you make it clear to the other parent in future that your DD may decide at some point that she's had enough of their child's company so they can be prepared for it? For example, bringing a favourite book or something to soften the blow and amuse their child when your child suddenly doesn't want them anymore. Or choosing a different playdate altogether.

I think neither was completely in the right.

Like several pp, I do think 2.5 hours was a bit long.

Are the children close friends, or were they only together because of the friendship of their parents or younger siblings (or perhaps the families form a 'bubble')? There's a difference between an occasional tiff between best friends, and a basic incompatibility.

In any case, I think that both children have to learn to cope with others having different needs from themselves, and how to compromise, but it's not always easy to learn these things. If Child B has a pattern of needing 'alone time', Mum B should have told Mum A about this in advance, so that it wouldn't risk looking like a personal rejection of Child A. In any case, both Mums should have tried to defuse the situation with their own children, rather than each criticizing the other child. Mum B could have suggested that Child B play with Child A for just another quarter of an hour, and then they would start preparing to go home. Mum A could have distracted Child A and drawn her into some activity that did not require the involvement of Child B,

I think you have to raise your daughter as you want to. However, something a parent said to me when my kids were in primary has really impacted how I raise my children. She was staying how important kids friends are in this day in age when they are as teens exposed to so much with drugs and online choices. She was talking about building kids lasting loyal friendships so children have an instant support mechanism around them when they are becoming more independent. Like at a party and have drunken too much - a friend who will either make sure they are ok and not taken advantage of or get home safely. I totally get your daughter playing alone at lunch for some recharge time of she wants to and sticking up for her boundaries is so so important. But going to a soft play centre with another family is different to lunchtime at school. You are teaching her social skills of being with others. If your daughter is taught not to take others feelings into account in these social situations she will find it harder to be in groups of children which starts to happen as children get older especially in secondary school. You won’t notice it now at 8 but it’s likely you will start noticing when she is older. And I am not saying as a teen your daughter won’t be loyal to another teen in need - but if she doesn’t have friends who feel loyal to her because she just walks off when they are socialising - she might find she doesn’t have a support group around her. I really think you need to reassess your social boundaries for when it is the right time to have quiet time and solo play and the right time to be polite within reason.
I think also whenever I have been a bit too over the top sticking to a boundary for my children it’s because I have my own issues from my past influencing my decisions. Your almost nonchalant stance of your behaviour after the incidence of yes this child A was upset but that’s not my problem me and my family were ok...I’ve given my daughter strong solo play boundaries that are black and white and we will stick to them in all circumstances...suggests to me you have strong feelings about something in your past.

The difficulty is that 8 year olds have liitle autonomy in ending a social situation, especially in a group where others are still happy (plus B was still happy to play by herself) B had already given 80% of the time of the session.
An adult in that position can politely make their excuses "so sorry, really tired, need to do ... when shall we meet again"
Children are stuck with it, with less refined social skills to boot, so while an 8yo can explain that they want to play alone now (which is vast improvement on a 2 year old just melting down), they don't yet have adult nuance.

Adult friendships with children can be tough, especially if some combinations of children within that gel better than others.
My friends have children around the same age. Our 9-10 yos naturally gel and have a good friendship. Our 7yos don't despite sharing a large overlap in interests. My 7yo comes off harder as the other 7yo isn't interested in socialising and group play (I strongly suspect ASD for a multitude of social, comunication and sensory issues; my older child is autistic but can mask more effectively) My 7yo naturally gravitates towards the 9-10 yos but the outcome depends on their moods. The problem is you can't fake it. Groups that don't gel perfectly are a fact of life and DS2 is better learning how to live with that than pissing off at least one child with SNs by forcing them unnaturally. We don't do soft play, but we do meet in situations where they can run around and please themselves. Sometimes there are upsets but it's dealt with as "X is feeling... why don't you try..." rather than making it about friendships and obligation. While DS2 comes off harder here, as a naturally extroverted child with an introverted sibling, in the big picture he does come off socially better and he has opportunities such as being put in for sports clubs for being socislly fulfilled. It just can't happen every time.

9-13 can be tricky helping them navigate friendships, social niceties, being a decent person but holding your own boundaries. It’s hard for adults.

Coldwinds, a group of children meeting at a soft play centre is a little different to a playdate between 2 children.

Taytotots, exactly!

@Frdd

I think child A and B wouldn’t be friends if the mums weren’t friends and that it’s time for the mums to do stuff on their own and limit the times the kids have to join in.

Whilst this would be lovely, I'm a single mum and my friend's husband is a abusive useless prick who wouldn't watch his kids while she came to mine for a meal and glass of wine for example. Yes it's shit, yes I wish she'd leave him, and have told her this, but she won't (or she won't yet) so our only way of seeing each other is with the kids.