Soft play situation - who is in the right?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Two mums meet at soft play with their 8yo girls - MumA & ChildA, and MumB & ChildB.

The slot is 2.5 hours, and after 2 hours ChildA comes to the adults crying because ChildB isn't playing with her anymore. ChildB approaches the table and MumA says "ChildA is upset because she says you won't play with her." ChildB responds "Yes I just want to play on my own for a bit". MumA says it's not nice to ditch your friend. MumB says that ChildB often gets tired of company and likes to do her own thing sometimes, and she's been taught to speak up if she ever feels like having alone time.

ChildA spends the rest of the session crying while ChildB goes to play on her own. ChildA says to her at the end that she isn't a good friend, which upsets ChildB.

Who was in the right, and should either mum have done anything differently?

[MessAllOver]

@strictlysocialdistancing. Completely agree. Good post. Both mums were understanding to their own children and judgemental towards the other child. Whereas understanding that both girls had conflicting feelings and helping them to balance them might have been better... So child A is entitled to play alone but child B is allowed to be a bit upset given she thought she was having a great time with her friend, who now doesn't want her.

[persheptions]

When she's older, she can learn to make an excuse and choose to leave. I'm not sure that you'd have been delighted if mum a had suddenly announced she'd had enough talking and wanted to be on her own. But nor should you have challenged it... You just might not want to meet up again-so it becomes about consequences rather than who should do what. Children are just people, hurt by the same things. I think too much was asked of both children.

[persheptions]

I do think your daughter's behavior was hurtful but the problem is, she wasn't given a non hurtful escape route which you should be providing as the parent of an introvert. The other mother was out of line though.

[strictlysocialdistancing]

Thank you jessstan1!

[jessstan1]

Very good post, strictlysocialdistancing.

[strictlysocialdistancing]

@Enough4me no, you misunderstand, it is the adults who need to be gentle and understanding, not the other 8 year old. And being gentle and understanding isn't about saying "you will get what you want" but explaining gently that they won't get what they want and why, and empathising and soothing in relation to the child's feelings whatever they are, and helping them find other things to do. Does that make more sense?

In relation to the other child, that situation should be tackled differently, with that child, teaching about assertiveness but also about being aware of other people's feelings and understanding consequences of different ways of dealing with things.

[bemusedmoose]

at 8 it's a bit odd that a child needs to constantly be entertained by another child so i can see that child B needs a break. Having been through this situation a lot - child A sounds high maintenance and wants everything their way and has bossed child B about. Child B has got fed up of playing everything child A's way and said they want to do something they want for a change or have a time out and child A has gone off crying that child B isnt playing nicely when actually it's child A that isnt playing nicely and child B is fed up with it.

I'm with mum and child B - if you need alone time take it. My 8 year old gets pigged off with people that dont play nice, are too clingy, just rude or bossy and needs time to herself or she'll end up yelling at them and then she gets in trouble with other adults. Kids need to know 1 - not everything goes their way 2 - take time out if you feel things are getting too much 3 - all people feel different, just because you enjoy something doesnt mean everyone does so think of what others want. 4 - SHARE!! Take turns in doing things, dont hog it all or no ne wants to play anymore.

Parent A should be aware that kids need a break from other kids sometimes and not make them feel bad about it. They should also have told kid A to have a break and entertain themselves for a bit. Parent A sounds as selfish as child A and most likely where the issue started

[ddl1]

'Being gentle and understanding is saying to an 8 year old that just asked for a break that you must continue to play with a wailing 8 year old.'

No; but it's good for children who are inclined to need a break to learn to let others know in advance. (Initially, this probably must be done by the parent). Others are more likely to be gentle and understanding with them if they realize that they just need a break from time to time, than if they think they're just being capricious or even spiteful.

I do agree that it was inappropriate for Mum A to scold Child B, especially when Mum B was present.

I don't think either child did anything wicked. It's normal for children to have some squabbles about who wants to play what and when. I don't think children are either going to end up as doormats or selfish brats forever as a result of this sort of occasional tiff.

[Onceuponatimethen]

@jessstan1 yes I agree - mum A should never have spoken to Child B

[Enough4me]

Being gentle and understanding is saying to an 8 year old that just asked for a break that you must continue to play with a wailing 8 year old. I doubt the DD would have suddenly said oh ignore my need for a break I will focus on the wailing 8 year old. The wailing child would have won by playing a victim. Next time she wants anything all she has to do is wail and mum fixes it for her...

[strictlysocialdistancing]

..pretty relaxing

[strictlysocialdistancing]

poor child A is living in an abusive household and has also just been through lockdown - living in there for months at a time with no escape to school and friends. I think it isn’t surprising the poor kid is vulnerable absolutely agree this is likely to be true, though it depends on what the husband was doing during lockdown, i know a similar family and the husband was never there and it was actually a lovely time for the dc - but in any event, being aware a child might have a vulnerable state of mind and mum b making allowances here would be a good and strong thing to do, not a weak thing to do. You can teach resilience and independence while also being gentle and understanding.

I always thought 'soft play' places were for little children. Shows how much I know. It does surprise me that they are open at the moment. It must be a nightmare for parents to have to sit there the entire time We caught covid from a soft play back in feb, they are a hot bed for disease if diseases are going round, how i wish we had gone to the toilet and washed our hands on the way out. We had super strong immune systems back in those days and had no idea how awful covid could be. We are fine now though, unless there is hidden damage.

But under normal circumstances softplay can be great for older kids up to about 12, the kids are running around, getting through small spaces, sliding, jumping, having fun, it is really good fun for them. It is also really easy for kids to make friends with new kids. It is also brilliant for parents if you are tired, you get to sit with a cup of coffee without any jobs to do or people needing you and day dream or read. They can be a bit dangerous if kids are running around too fast so you need to keep an eye a bit but generally the ones near us are pretty

[strictlysocialdistancing]

Good manners are fundamentally about consideration for other people. Learning to look outwards, read people, think about their needs and communicate accordingly. Not stewing incoherently inside, until you're in danger of exploding

So, while I get what you're trying to do, I think you're stuck in a rather passive, inward-looking mindset, that sees other people as a threat, rather than recognising them as fellow feeling, thinking people, with needs, preferences and struggles of their own. You need to teach your dd to perceive and connect with other people better.

I agree with this. Assertiveness requires you to take account of the other person's needs and boundaries to an appropriate extent.

[Enough4me]

The other mother would be better off considering options for a safer future for her and her DD and actively seeking these, plus helping encourage her DD to talk not wail through stress (resilience).

It is not easy to get away by any means, but she has in effect told her DD she is a victim by not addressing the wailing and by telling the other DD off. Neither she nor her DD are being confident or assertive they are both victims and she is the only one who can move this on (seeking help).

[jessstan1]

[quote Onceuponatimethen]@jessstan1 but poor child A is living in an abusive household and has also just been through lockdown - living in there for months at a time with no escape to school and friends. I think it isn’t surprising the poor kid is vulnerable[/quote]
Yes, some kids really have been through it if they are in an abusive household. It is still odd that the parent felt it was correct to go over to the other child's mother and tell her though. I don't think that was very helpful, frankly. It would have been better to just comfort the child and then encourage them to carry on playing, alone if necessary.

Poor kid.

Poor mother!

[MessAllOver]

I think parents creates a narrative around their children and other people's children which reflects how much tolerance they're willing to give them. The OP has created a narrative of her DD as a thoughtful, independently minded child (which I'm sure she is), with the result that her wishes and feelings are important and deserving of respect. Therefore, when she asked to be alone and child A objected, child A became the villain (an encroaching, annoying little pest) for failing to recognise child B's superior status as compared to her as someone whose wishes should be respected. But when child A also wanted space to be upset about her friend abandoning her and her wishes being disregarded, and so didn't want to make polite conversation with the OP, she was being rude, tiresome and unpleasant. Because, as a "difficult" child, her feelings and emotions are not given the same level of respect as those of child B. That seems a little unfair to me.

[Onceuponatimethen]

@jessstan1 op said this in a later comment:

“I think you're right, her father's attitude at home had most certainly had an impact on her character. Aside from being useless he's constantly grumpy and I suspect it's not a very happy home life for any of them sad”

[Onceuponatimethen]

@jessstan1 but poor child A is living in an abusive household and has also just been through lockdown - living in there for months at a time with no escape to school and friends. I think it isn’t surprising the poor kid is vulnerable

[jessstan1]

@Enough4me

If child A is so needy that they can't play by themselves for a bit and sit crying, A's mum should set up alone time more often. It's normal to be able to occupy yourself!

Yes it is and the child is eight! She was behaving like a four year old.

I always thought 'soft play' places were for little children. Shows how much I know. It does surprise me that they are open at the moment.

It must be a nightmare for parents to have to sit there the entire time.

[Enough4me]

I look it at from the perspective that when my DC have felt left out or dropped it's a good time to teach resilience. Yes it doesn't feel nice and it does warrant being sad / crying, but also being alone is ok. If the DC said they wanted to run alone for a bit, the other DC could have chosen what she wanted, e.g. fast slides.
I hope my DC are not people pleasers or controlling, but flexible to be happy with themselves and with a degree of change.

[Menomosso]

Lottiegarbanzo, I also agree. I think this kind of parenting also leads to flaky adults - the ones who are always cancelling meet ups because at the last minute they feel a bit anxious or a bit tired or whatever. One of the things I disliked most as a child was the fact that I was subject to my parents timetable, and couldn’t leave places when I wanted to, but it did teach me resiliance. Left to my own devices I’d probably like to act like child B, but people would quickly tire of me, just as I have tired of ‘friends’ who are only concerned about their own feelings and whims.

[LAMPS1]

Well articulated Lottiegarbanzo.
I agree entirely.

[lottiegarbanzo]

This one has stuck in my mind over the last couple of days. Having read all your updates OP, I think that to a significant extent, what you are doing is over-compensating, in an equal and opposite way, for your own (former) doormat tendencies, by raising your dd to be selfish.

You're focusing too much on your and her internal experience, too little on empathy for others and developing the skills required to interact with people.

What you both seem to be missing, is that assertiveness is based in good manners. If you know how to talk to people clearly, nicely and in a way that connects with them, then including your own needs in what you say comes easily. Haven't you noticed how the most socially polished people are exceptionally to the point and no-nonsense about stating what they want and making it happen? All without upsetting anybody?

Good manners are fundamentally about consideration for other people. Learning to look outwards, read people, think about their needs and communicate accordingly. Not stewing incoherently inside, until you're in danger of exploding.

So, while I get what you're trying to do, I think you're stuck in a rather passive, inward-looking mindset, that sees other people as a threat, rather than recognising them as fellow feeling, thinking people, with needs, preferences and struggles of their own. You need to teach your dd to perceive and connect with other people better.

So in this instance, I think you got it a bit wrong and that that would have been true, even if child A had seemed ok with being ignored.

[Enough4me]

I was wondering that too @expatinspain; it's the perfect open petridish to spread bacteria and viruses.

I was glad when mine grew out of being invited to parties in them, having seen it all over the years. Unwatched DC running out with vomit and runny nappies, which had been dragged through ball pools. Outside play is much better than the cramped, hot, bug baths of soft play.

[expatinspain]

Am I the only one wondering why soft play is even open in the middle of a pandemic 🤔