Soft play situation - who is in the right?

[GlummyMcGlummerson]

Two mums meet at soft play with their 8yo girls - MumA & ChildA, and MumB & ChildB.

The slot is 2.5 hours, and after 2 hours ChildA comes to the adults crying because ChildB isn't playing with her anymore. ChildB approaches the table and MumA says "ChildA is upset because she says you won't play with her." ChildB responds "Yes I just want to play on my own for a bit". MumA says it's not nice to ditch your friend. MumB says that ChildB often gets tired of company and likes to do her own thing sometimes, and she's been taught to speak up if she ever feels like having alone time.

ChildA spends the rest of the session crying while ChildB goes to play on her own. ChildA says to her at the end that she isn't a good friend, which upsets ChildB.

Who was in the right, and should either mum have done anything differently?

Family B were right. And MumA should have taken her child home.

@strictlysocialdistancing

I also agree that no one has to include people they don't want to include. Some schools equate exclusion with bullying but I think that's a dangerous precedent to set it usually is in fact a form of bullying, in fact, where you have some children persuading others to gang up. In my dc's class, the child being excluded changes day to day, though there are usually the same children involved in leading the gang. Where children are being excluded because of their own behaviour then that child usually hugely benefits from being taught some social skills. The school needs to be on the case in these examples, whatever the cause of the exclusion.

@GlummyMcGlummerson I just realised what I responded to here was your quote! As a teacher you really do need to be more on top of this.

My dc who are no angels themselves and are sometimes the excluded and sometimes part of the gang excluding someone else, say the teachers are on it if it is during class time usually, but clueless during breaktime, and that when kids are excluded - whether it be all the time because of their social skills or when it is their turn - it has a devastating affect on them. The kids always leading the gangs to persuade others to exclude someone are gradually changing into hardened bullies. Letting them get on with it is not doing any of them any favours.

@Frdd

You wanted your kids to go along and play nice so you could natter and drink coffee with your mate.

Can’t you do that during the day when they’re at school?

Well considering I work and my friend works, not really.

I think you are going to take the right approach, so by telling your own DD she is entitled to alone time but also letting her know that how she communicates that may have consequences.

All good learning experiences though. And it is a shame you can't meet your friend for a nice glass of wine.

In fact, I suggested alternative ways for you to spend time with your friend that didn’t involve the girls.

@strictlysocialdistancing

Whilst this would be lovely, I'm a single mum and my friend's husband is a abusive useless prick who wouldn't watch his kids while she came to mine for a meal and glass of wine for example. Yes it's shit, yes I wish she'd leave him, and have told her this, but she won't (or she won't yet) so our only way of seeing each other is with the kids If he is an abusive prick she might well feel she doesn't want to leave her dc with him. And that if she left she would be forced to do 50/50 which again she might see as less than ideal.

Which is one of the reasons why she doesn't leave him

And I suggested having the kids over and doing a sleepover.

You are being very very rude

How the hell will you manage alone time in a museum? Honestly I do understand what you're trying to do but there's every chance this will bite you in the arse. For example as the girls start to go off and do things without parents is it ok to leave a friend alone because you need alone time?

If joining you for soft play meant my kid was whinging/crying at me for half an hour when I'd paid for the privilege I would not be joining you again. I tend not to use expensive supposedly fun activities to teach my child how to cope with difficult people.

Do you think that if child A is more sociable then eventually after she’s been picked up and dropped by child B a few times, child A will look to others to find a friend that will meet her needs.

Neither child is wrong or right, both just differ. Child B shouldn’t be made to play with the other
Child if she doesn’t want too.
But child A should also not be put in a situation where she feels rejected.
Both child A and B’s mum must feel uncomfortable in the situation, neither being right or wrong. However for child A her child is getting upset. Surely her child’s feeling matter just as much and it’s easier to avoid another meet up.

@Deadringer

Jesus who has time to worry about this shit

👍 Pathetic and small Minded

@GlummyMcGlummerson

As a teacher I never make a child play with someone if they don’t want to

Teacher here too - I also agree that no one has to include people they don't want to include. Some schools equate exclusion with bullying but I think that's a dangerous precedent to set

I’d always hoped that the teacher my DS1 had in Reception, who repeatedly left DS (who has complex SEN) to be alone because he was “too fixated” (in her opinion) on a couple of other boys in the class, was the only teacher with this quite extraordinary and grossly inappropriate belief. Yes he was excluded. Yes he was bullied. She encouraged the excluding and turned a blind eye to the bullying.

@TweeBree

What if it was her birthday party? Could she tell everyone to go home halfway through because she 'needed space'?

No, she didn't tell anybody to go hone though so it's a weak comparison.

Should could have a little time out at her birthday party though depending on what the party is.

You can’t have a system where a child dumps one child and They other child doesn’t get to say anything back

@Freddiefox you're absolutely right and I recognise I need to have this chat with DD.

OP - in what way were any of the things I suggested lying? They were examples of politer ways of your dd achieving the result she wants. ‘I’m tired’ is much nicer than telling her friend that she doesn’t want to play with her. And presumably your dd stayed in the bit of soft play that she wanted and expected the other girl to leave - she could have just wandered back to you and said that she needed a bit of time to sit quietly. It is rude to tell someone that you are at an arranged activity with that you want to be on your own now, there’s no getting round the fact that it means ‘I’ve had enough of you’ of course A was upset - and we don’t know the tone of voice used either.
I think in your effort to not be a ‘people pleaser’ (a sentence rarely used be people who are genuinely altruistic, incidentally) you have confused some great messages regarding consent / sexual boundaries / work place boundaries with the social niceties most people use to make the world a generally tolerable place. The tact and empathy we use to avoid pissing off our friends and people we actually want to like us isn’t ‘people pleasing’ it’s basic manners and it benefits us. Your child will have a tricky time if she goes round being this blunt to her friends.

I would have sent them off for another 5 minutes or so then A had some warning then let B have her alone time rather than just abruptly stopping playing with her friend.

If there is a next time then you clearly need to meet with more people so your dd can duck out and ChildA has options. I realize the more complicated set up means there's a chance for squabbles for A.

Personally if I was MumA I would have taken my dd home early. 2.5 hours is clearly too long a session for her. If I were you I would have taken my dd home too. It's fine that she feels she played enough with her friend but if you meet with a friend it's implied that you hang out until the end of the meeting. How would you feel if MumA sat at another table for a while? Would you allow your dd to ditch a friend mid play date or sleepover at your house?

@MessAllOver

Teacher here too - I also agree that no one has to include people they don't want to include. Some schools equate exclusion with bullying but I think that's a dangerous precedent to set

I'm amazed at this. Children are legally obliged to be at school. There's no escape from that environment for them, no deciding that they're rather retreat to the safety of home. Do you mean that you allow some children to exist, day after day, in an environment where they're left out, lonely, excluded, humiliated and have their confidence and self-worth undermined and destroyed? Because that's what exclusion does.

No - what I meant is that a group of friends shouldn't be obliged to let someone in if that child is someone they don't like, a bully, difficult etc. Telling children they must be friends with everyone (even the child who calls them names or who they don't gel at all with) no matter what is a dangerous precedent to set.

And children are not legally obliged to be at school.

You are not obliged to be pally with everyone at work even though you need to be there

@ThePlantsitter Since your DD was upset to be told she was a bad friend maybe you need to teach her how to ride out the uncomfortable feeling that being assertive about your own needs often comes with. Or choose which thing is more important to her, the time alone or the 'being a good friend'.

You are absolutely right and I think this is an area I've missed out when teaching the importance of assertiveness

@Sittinbythesea

OP - in what way were any of the things I suggested lying? They were examples of politer ways of your dd achieving the result she wants. ‘I’m tired’ is much nicer than telling her friend that she doesn’t want to play with her. And presumably your dd stayed in the bit of soft play that she wanted and expected the other girl to leave - she could have just wandered back to you and said that she needed a bit of time to sit quietly. It is rude to tell someone that you are at an arranged activity with that you want to be on your own now, there’s no getting round the fact that it means ‘I’ve had enough of you’ of course A was upset - and we don’t know the tone of voice used either. I think in your effort to not be a ‘people pleaser’ (a sentence rarely used be people who are genuinely altruistic, incidentally) you have confused some great messages regarding consent / sexual boundaries / work place boundaries with the social niceties most people use to make the world a generally tolerable place. The tact and empathy we use to avoid pissing off our friends and people we actually want to like us isn’t ‘people pleasing’ it’s basic manners and it benefits us. Your child will have a tricky time if she goes round being this blunt to her friends.

This.

I’m an introvert who would have hated soft play if it had existed in my day, but i also know that if I’d gone on an outing with a friend and stopped playing with them after a couple of hours, I’d have gone home with a sore backside.

Yeah I'm not gonna assault my child because she wanted to play alone for a while

[quote Walkaround]@GlummyMcGlummerson - so, you want to empower your dd to speak up, so long as that doesn’t involve saying to her mother she would like to go home now, because she’s not an adult and can’t drive herself .[/quote]
She didn't want to go home though HTH

@Frdd

Yeah. What would you do if your DDsaid “I want to go now. I’ve had enough. You’re ignoring my boundary take me home” when you wanted to sit with coffee and relax chatting

I'd say this is mummy's time with a friend too, so we will compromise and go in 10 minutes. I teach my children that I'm not just MumBot, that my day and my feelings matter too.

I even enjoy a cup of tea occasionally, imagine

[quote ParrotheadRedux]**@tinty* said So i will say this, 2.5 hours is probably too long for a soft play session and both parents should have resolved the situation by leaving when the children started falling out.*

I completely agree. Why on earth did either of you stay and watch Child A cry?[/quote]
I'm not leaving so where my kids are happy at because another child is crying. My friend knows I wouldn't have minded being left if they wanted to leave. I did try and speak to ChildA but got ignored and I'm not going to Labour the point.

I’m stuck on this:
Teacher here too - I also agree that no one has to include people they don't want to include. Some schools equate exclusion with bullying but I think that's a dangerous precedent to set

I'm amazed at this. Children are legally obliged to be at school. There's no escape from that environment for them, no deciding that they're rather retreat to the safety of home. Do you mean that you allow some children to exist, day after day, in an environment where they're left out, lonely, excluded, humiliated and have their confidence and self-worth undermined and destroyed? Because that's what exclusion does.*

Totally agree with the second pp’s response. I am also a teacher in a tiny school with only few children in each year group and we work so hard to ensure that everyone is included and no one feels left out - even though no everyone’s character is suited to the next person. I think the chance of exclusion and the resultant negative feelings is very real for some children and a teacher’s role is absolutely to help avoid that happening. Just as in a work environment you should talk to all your colleagues even if you might not choose to socialise with everyone outside that setting.