Help! My children are destroying my home!

[yesiamyesiamokaycallmeback]

I have 4 children ranging in age from 8 to 0. They have absolutely destroyed my home. They rip the wallpaper, pull on the wires for the sky box so they are hanging out, they climb on the doors and have broken three! Three!!!
The carpet stinks, there is pen all over the walls, furniture and carpet. Biro on the sofa. ruined.
They have even broken my wardrobe from climbing in it.
I'm finding it so so so so hard to motivate myself to clean up after them. I dont knoe how to get them to stop wrecking things. It mainly happens when I'm on the toilet (door open shouting 'stop' every single time) or when I'm breastfeeding the baby or putting her to bed for a nap.
I have wanted a new carpet for 2 years but whats the point when my toddler spills every drink on purpose? I want to redecorate the walls but again, what's the point?

I am at my wits end and so is their dad. It is so depressing spending a few hours cleaning on the weekend for the end result to be a dirty, grimy broken home with rips and drips and sticks and I dont know what to do!

Does anyone else's children do this? My mum struggled with us as children (she had 4 too, similar ages) but DH thinks our kids are really bad and apparently he and his siblings (3 with 5 year age gap between 1st and 2nd) never treated their house/ toys badly.

As not to drip feed, we are all squished into a 2 bed flat, it is quite large but obviously too small for us now. We were going to move earlier in the year but Covid threw a spanner or ten into the works and now it looks like we won't be moving for another year at least (more likely 2 or 3).

please no "why did you have children if you only have a flat" I know, but they're here and they are lovely. Just a bit boisterous.

I take them out daily (except when raining) but even if we go out for 2 hours they will come back and my eldest 8yo is still running round like a Tanzanian devil.

The fact that you don't go out in the rain stands out to me - you still need to take them out, rain or shine. Waterproofs and wellies and get out of the house for a good run about. It rains far too much in this country to expect them to stay indoors in wet weather. Yes, they might get muddy but that's what waterproof gear and washing machines are for.

I also don't think two hours a day is really a huge amount for four children who are otherwise cooped up inside with no garden. Could you split the days a little? Get up, breakfast, get outside for some exercise. Park, beach, nature reserve, up the woods - get out and get exploring. Then back home for lunch and some quiet time (TV, film, lego, naps, screen time - depending on which DC) then back out again to do something different.

If you had a garden it would be very different, but as it stands you've chosen to have lots of children in a small space so your options are much more limited.

Well I'm just posting to say how well behaved my DC were (and my friends' DCs) and they never would have dared to act like that. A look would have stopped them and your parenting isn't good enough. I'm not going to try and give any advice, just say that and smugly fuck off. I might suggest you get some better contraception as though it will send your current DC back.

Actually I'm not posting to say that

I'm going to say it sounds like a fucking nightmare and it's probably quite hard to get your head round strategies unless you've lived in this situation. Also perhaps people don't realise for example that not everyone has a car and depending on where you live getting to outside areas like parks can involve taking all the DC on public transport which a. Costs money and b. is a fucking logistical nightmare with 3DC and a baby! (Not saying that's the case for your OP, but it's an example of something people don't realise if they have no experience...)

Apologies if this has been suggested - but are they all sharing one bedroom? One thing that helped us enormously was getting a sofa bed in the lounge and giving them the bedrooms. It's not the greatest thing for you obviously, but if you can get the best mattress you can and tell yourself it's only temporary (which it is) it may be worth it (if you're not already doing it!)

Or perhaps, if the littlest DC sleeps in the lounge with you, you could have the other 3 sleeping in one bedroom whilst they are still this age, and the other room as a dedicated playroom? Corral all the mess from toys etc in this area and also have a way to separate them a bit, agree one to one time individually would be good and that set up may help.

Routines (as much as you can with a little one in the house) might help eg meals at set times, bedtimes at same time, exercise in morning, (maybe exercise videos on You tube etc if you can't get out easily) and more chilled time in the afternoon.

Obviously the consequences of their behaviour needs addressing but people have other good ideas, mine are just practical I'm afraid!

I can't imagine how much more difficult it is, living in this situation in current times. It must make it so much harder. I know I would seriously have lost my mind by now, so you actually should feel proud you're at the point of asking for advice and support on MN instead of crying in bed all day (which is genuinely what I would have been doing).

I hope people actually give you good advice and support in return.

Agree that you do need to get them out even in bad weather. Beaches and nature reserves may not be an option if you live in a city without a car, so you need to put some thought into this. Where can they go and splash without getting into trouble? Can you source a cheap rain-cover for the baby?

Again, when you go out, can you give the 8yo more responsibility? For planning or for looking after something for you or even for helping you to lift things? It is no good for children to feel they are only there to get into trouble. Ime boys in particular respond better to being asked to do difficult things, to show their strength than to boring easy jobs. (Not saying they shouldn't do those too, but it's nice to give them the chance to shine)

Also - and this is not for the DC, this is more for you - can you and your DH work it so that you each get some time completely on your own each week (if you don't do this already of course). I mean totally away from the DC and the flat really even if it's a long walk, or going for a coffee or even a run (I would really really recommend running). Obviously I don't know how practical this is with the baby (being honest, mine are older now and I have perhaps deliberately forgotten a bit what it's like having small babies). Even if it's just half an hour though.

Equal disposable leisure time for you each. No children (unless you have to have the baby). Off duty completely. It will give you something to look forward to, it would help your head get a break and the knock on effect might give you more patience and be beneficial.

Running outside on my own, even in the rain, was the single best thing I did for myself when my DC were small. (Drinking wine once the DC went to sleep was the worst, encouraging this with things like "wine o clock" should be fucking banned I think. That might just be my problem though )

I do feel for you - Cocvd is bad enough, but having that stop a move to a house and garden, as well as having small baby, must be soul-destroying. Will the house move happen once covid measures have eased?

Baby not soul-destroying! - failed house move.

My kids did this during lockdown and it was boredom, stress, lack of space etc. I don't think they would have if they'd had school, nursery, toddler groups, their sports, swimming, days out with family and friends, play dates, park trips and time in the great outdoors like normal. Even things like time on public transport or out buying school clothes. We sat inside waiting for the delivery man, and went for walks round the block. Even with bikes to go on etc. It was a lot of tv and play and colouring. And my kids aren't made like that. They are like different people again now

I just wipe pen marks off the walls with warm soapy water as best I can and clean any particularly bad spots off the carpet. After a year, I rent a carpet shampooer and paint the walls.

I always put my toddlers high chair in the same place and that wall gets painted more often!

We have lots of indoor play equipment. There are some fabulous push up bar trips things with attachments that make it a bit like a park you can buy, and soft play style equipment. I would love both but out my price range. So we make most of cushions, tents, tunnels and bean bags

I hate to say it but doesnt get any better...my 2 eldest are 21 and 23 and home from uni...they have destroyed my house...they leave huge puddles of water on my wooden worktop so its going black....refuse to open window in shower room so room is going mouldy....spilt a full cup of coffee on the bedroom carpet...constantly breaking glasses etc...when i complain im told 'its an accident'....im sick to death of it....i want to live alone with cats or dogs.

@myusernamewastakenbyme

At that age can't you persuade them to move out? Sounds grim

Natural mess and spills are one thing so is very little ones covering themselves in Sudocream or coal (looking at my eldest)
However we never had any wilful destruction like biro on the sofa or walls or paper pulling off.
I’m sure it’s very very hard with 4 at such a young age but they do sound like trapped energetic little bears.
Get them out between you if you can and wear the older ones out and have a chat about how it’s your home all of you need to try and improve it. See if they have ideas about a fresh coat of paint or let them help so they have some respect for the place.
Anything you see done by a child old enough to know better they get a fitting/fair punishment.

@WhichOneNowTheRedOrTheGreen
this is absolutely amazing advice and worth all the contraception/ "be rich it works for us" comments
a sofa bed is actually probably the most amazing idea in the world. I don't have anything really in my room apart from a falling apart wardrobe so I will pitch this idea to dh
thank you so much
this is why I came to mumsnet after 3 and a half months of crying lol

@Mischance the mortgage we were able to get was pulled so we need to triple or more likely quadruple our deposit.
thankfully dh still has a job and even more luckily he has more work due to covid19
we are extremely lucky in that respect

@BoudiccasBoudoir not yet unfortuntely...they've just graduated and need to find jobs first...they are both lovely young men....just dont seem to see that being heavy handed causes things to break.

@myusernamewastakenbyme

Well, hopefully not too long anyway then! But probably miss them then. Sod's law! Haha

Are all your dc boys OP btw.

It sounds very tough but definitely no pens and just water. Take the food away before toddler can throw it if possible

Definitely say to older ones that if they carry on being destructive you won't be able to afford to move,

Would it be the end of the world if they went to the grandparents to give you a break

Sofa bed sounds like an excellent plan!

Beyond that - how old is the baby? If you can wear the baby in a cloth sling then you may be able to get the hang of breastfeeding on the move which is a game changer for supervising the others.

If the carpet is black and stinking, lift it. If you can’t afford to replace it with laminate, what’s underneath it? Older style flat may have solid flooring - which you could potentially paint with gloss. Cheap and cheerful in the short term, easy enough to cover up when you’re looking to move on.

Keep the pens and messy stuff under lock and key. Along with any Hama beads and teeny tiny Lego, it only comes out here when the toddler is asleep.

It sounds utterly exhausting. And as though you’ve got stuck in a cycle.

I wonder if you husband could spare a few days leave, so you could do a sort of household boot camp together?

Day one, kids in school and ideally toddler in childcare somewhere, you and he have a mega house blitz.

Kids home in the evening and together you both set out how it’s going to be in future. And then a few days where he is around too. And you do the discipline, with him backing you up when needed so they get used to the idea that they have to listen to you as well as him. Don’t make it pure discipline. Carrot and stick. Sit them down - if we can get everything tidied away before tea and eat sensibly, we will have time for a run in the park before bed. Or a board game, or whatever else they enjoy.

If you do have any money you can spend, consider maybe a small indoor trampoline, or a gorilla gym - indoor climbing frame. And then make the doors and furniture off limits.

If you can’t get outside, have a dance-off or play Simon Says with lots of running on the spot and star jumps and other things. And use the older 2 - one can help get ready for tea, the other can play with the toddler for 15 minutes whilst you get it done. Not sure how old the toddler is, but a play pen is a marvellous thing too if they aren’t already too big for one.

@yesiamyesiamokaycallmeback

It certainly could be one possibility. Children who are on the go all the time, impulsive, and destructive...the kind of kids you try to discipline but you can tell that they just don’t have any delay between thinking and acting (so it’s a losing battle) are the kids for whom we should certainly consider a diagnosis.

There are 3 types of ADHD -the inattentive type who seem to live in their own world, struggle to pay attention and follow through tasks, the hyperactive/impulsive type (this kind can be very destructive!) and combined type (both sets of symptoms).

I’d start reading here and see what you think.

www.additudemag.com/what-is-adhd-symptoms-causes-treatments/

@yesiamyesiamokaycallmeback I'm sure I was given the sofa bed tip on MN originally so it's nice to pass it on! It really worked for us, we got one with storage underneath it for the bedding etc, and the best mattress we could afford. It was actually amazing, and being able to separate the DC a bit made a huge difference. Ironically they all used to get in with us and watch TV at the weekends - they still talk about that fondly!

The only meh point is when DH wanted to stay up late watching TV and I wanted to go to bed but a good sleep mask and earplugs worked for me (these days he could have used wireless headphones with the TV I guess!)

My DC (all close together in age) were little when the only "screen time" option was CBeebies, and I still remember the relief I used to feel when "Bedtime Hour" began. If it makes you feel a bit better mine are now young adults/older teens and one has just offered (offered!) to make me a cup of tea, and another is going to watch a recorded GBBO with me so they grow up and get better so quickly even if it doesn't feel like it now.

(Their rooms are still complete shit tips but as long as there is no mould growing and still some plates and mugs left in the kitchen, I close the doors and ignore)

My room isn't much better either

sorry I only skimmed the thread...
I agree in regards to exercise, my DS was a devil from around 1.5 - 4 years old. I have been known to be at the park 8-9am (all weather & seasons) just to give him some running space!
But I also found that DC helping to tidy, clean and clear up their own stuff and communal spaces will give them respect for the things they have. Granted it's a slow process & you will feel like you need to do everything twice (don't ever knock their contributions/ confidence), but they will learn eventually!
Eg, toddler spills a drink: "Oh dear! Let's clean it up..." you take some tissue/ cloth for both of you and show how to clean it up...
8 year old breks / swinging off wardrobe door... : "That was was silly thing to do, you could have been really hurt. Now how can we best fix it?" Lead him towards a good solution but let him come up with his own... most won't work, some do. Important thing is, he is starting to think about his behaviour.

Good luck, things won't change overnight, its about slowly conditioning them to behave the way you want them to.

How do you do it on days when you have PMT!!?? I would be going nuts!

I hope some of the practical suggestions will prove to be a help. There is inevitably a degree of chaos with 6 people in a small space, so don't beat yourself up about the idea that you might be failing in some way - we can all only do our best.

I really do hope that a house move can happen for you at some point - it is awful to have that prospect before you and then have the rug pulled from under your feet.

Some kids are more destructive than others. 350 kids on my own were less trouble than mine could be on occasion.

Go for the easy wins first. All pens are locked away.
Swap to water to drink.
Get tough.
Then add in other stuff

We stopped buying yogurt after it was chucked at the curtains.
(Asd child)
All our furniture is robust and climbable ( some secondhand) and cupboard doors had locks and no handles and safety glass as demonstrated by the shop owner kicking one of his cabinets.

Try to get something they can climb/ swing off. My dad got me a really tough bunk bed I used to climb. And swing off.

Swinging off doors may be a sensory thing.

Try some calming activities for them. Eg one of mine gets regular foot massages which helps them stay calmer when stressed.