Help! My children are destroying my home!

[yesiamyesiamokaycallmeback]

I have 4 children ranging in age from 8 to 0. They have absolutely destroyed my home. They rip the wallpaper, pull on the wires for the sky box so they are hanging out, they climb on the doors and have broken three! Three!!!
The carpet stinks, there is pen all over the walls, furniture and carpet. Biro on the sofa. ruined.
They have even broken my wardrobe from climbing in it.
I'm finding it so so so so hard to motivate myself to clean up after them. I dont knoe how to get them to stop wrecking things. It mainly happens when I'm on the toilet (door open shouting 'stop' every single time) or when I'm breastfeeding the baby or putting her to bed for a nap.
I have wanted a new carpet for 2 years but whats the point when my toddler spills every drink on purpose? I want to redecorate the walls but again, what's the point?

I am at my wits end and so is their dad. It is so depressing spending a few hours cleaning on the weekend for the end result to be a dirty, grimy broken home with rips and drips and sticks and I dont know what to do!

Does anyone else's children do this? My mum struggled with us as children (she had 4 too, similar ages) but DH thinks our kids are really bad and apparently he and his siblings (3 with 5 year age gap between 1st and 2nd) never treated their house/ toys badly.

As not to drip feed, we are all squished into a 2 bed flat, it is quite large but obviously too small for us now. We were going to move earlier in the year but Covid threw a spanner or ten into the works and now it looks like we won't be moving for another year at least (more likely 2 or 3).

please no "why did you have children if you only have a flat" I know, but they're here and they are lovely. Just a bit boisterous.

If standing on the spot is the only punishment they are getting, it is clearly completely ineffectual and they do not care. They know they will do their time and go right back to dominating you. You need to find their currency and use it against them, really make them feel a consequence. It's the only way to break the cycle. I have three boys in a very small 2 up 2 down terrace. No way would I let them do this to my home. With your young baby being so dependent on you your husband really needs to step up here.

It is really not particularly normal/typical to have children be destructive to this level.

It is either about parenting/discipline/family style (naughty step really doesn’t work)...

...or something like ADHD. I hate to be the person to immediately jump on the idea that there is something pathological going on, but having a child with ADHD (the combined type with hyperactivity and impulsivity rather than simply inattentive) I can tell you destruction was a huge part of how it presented and one of the key things that stopped with adequate treatment. We went from absolute mayhem to a tidy, organised house with diagnosis and treatment. And, yes, I know you haven’t singled out any one child, but inheritance rates are something in the region of 80% so it’s pretty likely that if there is one child with ADHD in a family then you are likely to have another.

Two things spring to mind:

Do the older children get enough of an outlet for their physical energy? Do they have a chance e.g. to climb trees (if there is a park nearby) or do other outdoor activities? Do they do any sport?

Do the older children, particularly the 8yo, get a chance to think of themselves as competent members of the household? Do they take part in DIY, ever cook or bake on their own? At this age, I think a real counterweight to destructiveness is giving them responsibilities, preferably something they can take a bit of pride in and that can become their thing.

I would think carefully about any punishments you decide to go with. I think taking away screen time is the obvious one but in such a small place will that make frustration and behaviour worse? I would perhaps think about them having to use pocket money to pay towards any damage they cause, getting them to tidy up messes they make etc.

They’re old enough for consequences- so if the toddler spills juice on the floor they help clean it up - which means no time for playing, tv whatever. The oldest one lets the toddler get the pens, they’re cleaning up the ink, they break the door they don’t get treat because the money is needed to fix the door. I’d be explicit about the link between what they did and consequences for the older two.

Time out didn’t work for my kids after about 6, but immediate consequences linked to the thing they did worked well.

Agree with above . Boundaries and consequences but also try to catch them doing something right and be positive, ott even. There is a method called the marble jar you can find on mn. Also minimise opportunities for them to run wild - distraction, dh taking them outside, drinks and food in an area with easy to clean flooring only, no walking around with food and snacks (you as well as an example), no pens or messy play unsupervised. Could you hire a carpet cleaner and deep clean carpets etc while they are at school or dh does it while you go out.

@Lovelydovey 2 at school. toddler is the only one willfully destroying things.
The sky man came and left the wire not completely secure so 2yo spotted that and tries to climb it, its just hanging off now (still connected just off the wall a bit)

I take them out daily (except when raining) but even if we go out for 2 hours they will come back and my eldest 8yo is still running round like a Tanzanian devil.

we only have a living room so table is in there. it's disgusting.
only allowed water but it makes no difference.
we only eat on the table but toddler gets up and runs off with his plate every single mealtime.

we are strict-ish. go to the spot every time, lose out on pudding and follow through, taken toys and hid them on the wardrobe (caused climbing in the wardrobe to retrieve them, broke the wardrobe in the process) I've tried reward charts, called the 'police', but also I need to go to the toilet, have a wash, brush my teeth. in those minutes they literally go wild. and when I am breastfeeding (so sitting in the living room with them) the oldest 2 literally ignore me and basically do an F you in my face. it is so disheartening.

I dont know what to do.
we do think that my eldest needs a garden to run around in. He does Not Stop. He cries about everything too and is really really moody. But I can't be at the park all day every day.

When we visit my parents house (with a massive back garden) they play nicely out there all day for hours. But I bring them home and it just turns to chaos.
obviously can't visit my parents over lockdown, and we are in a local lockdown so can't visit anymore again. there is no break. I am broken I really am. I try and i am consistent but sitting in a corner of the room for 6 or 8 minutes is hardly a punishment.
I've had them in time out for 30 minutes before.
Had them writing lines, apology letters, natural consequences so cleaning the pen off the wall/ scrubbing the carpet. nothing phases them and toddler (just turned 2 so still quite young) is way to young to 'get' punishments.

my parents think we should be smacking them but I don't want to do that.

we spend a lot of time outdoors as a family but I have to come home to make dinner, do chores etc.

You definitely need to toughen up. Lots of mandatory outdoor walks/scoots/park each day. Regardless of the weather.
Toddler comes with you when you go for a wee.
I'd be making the oldest have a little bit of responsibility.. Ie show them the right way with pens and hopefully they'll enjoy reminding the siblings. No pens unless at the table. Ditto paints/playdough or anything messy.
Water to drink only at the table. Same with food.
Big stern voice and physically moving them away when they are destroying stuff. No point screaming and shouting but lowering your voice and crouching down to their level helps. Punishment needs to be immediate.
Good luck OP.

Sounds like the oldest are looking for attention even if it’s negative. Perhaps you should take them out away from the younger children so they can get some attention from you.

Also, sit the older ones down and explain your house rules. Take things that they value away from them (toys/treats) if they don’t comply. Naughty steps don’t really work in my opinion.

Swap the carpet for Lino or laminate whichever is affordable.
Hide or lock away all pens/paints etc they only are used under supervision same with play dough
Cover sofas armchairs with fleece throws from Asda. I understand about the climbing on sofas my 3 year old does it. I successfully and quickly stopped him putting things down the loo and drawing on walls but can’t stop him on sofas. We don’t use the living room as a result. We are lucky to have a kitchen diner though

Drinks in those drinks bottles they take water to school in. Asda is a cheap place to buy them or sippy cups. Eat whilst sat at the table. If you don’t have a table they are usually cheaply available in charity shops.
For toys it’s one out at a time each.
Try to get out for an hour in the morning and an hour in the afternoon. If they behave all morning they can have an ice cream on the afternoon walk. (A multi pack from coop or similar small shop is the cheapest way).
It’s just constantly enforcing boundaries
Good luck

All this swapping carpet for laminate is not really addressing the issues. What are they like at school?

Please don’t pretend to call the police. I hate it when parents do this, the police shouldn’t be used to try and frighten children.

Op are the older kids getting enough positive attention. 4 kids in 2 bed flat sounds tough.

Do they have to clean (or attempt to clean up) their messes/destruction? (Can't be giving the toddler cleaning stuff, but can a wet cloth).

@corythatwas no sports because of funds (saving every penny to move) but we go to the park and they are climbers. They are always up trees outside.
But it doesn't seem to matter if we go out for less than 6 hours. only all day long walks tire them out.

@LIZS what is the marble jar method? I have jars and marbles so this could be good.

honestly they weren't that bad but recently since baby has come home and I can't stop them every 5 mins because I'm feeding baby/ settling baby they have gotten worse.
They are upset aswell because we were set to move to a big house with a garden and that was stopped with covid.
I feel like all my motivation has gone. I can't do this for another few years.
all I do all day now is shout
stop climbing
get down
who got this pen out?

The consequences have to be impactful for them
to be useful. Obviously standing on a time out spot for a few minutes isn’t a good enough deterrent.

My two boys are pretty destructive with their toys but if they damaged the house on purpose there would be extremely strong consequences.

Off the top of my head;
All screens would disappear for a period of time
Extra curricular activities would cease
Pocket money
I also having a savings account for both children and whichever child damaged something I would tell them the repair money would be taken from this account
Etc etc

Obviously it would depend on what happened and the situation but it would be taken extremely seriously if it was going to cost money to rectify. Accidents are accidents, doing this kind of thing on purpose has to be quashed straight away or else they’re going to do the same outside of the house too and you’ll end up with the police at your door when they’re teenagers.

I had 3 within 6 years. Only one (youngest) ever drew on the wall more than once.

There needs to be consequences that hit hard, immediately. Games console, iPad etc, need removing. If they climb the wardrobe, lock them in the boot of the car, and keep the key in your pocket.

If the toddler gets up from the table, go back to the high chair so they can’t.

Do you still have a high chair? Contain toddler in that before giving him any food.

DS (8) here is allowed screens at 4pm every day as long as a set list of conditions has been met. If he's in danger of losing that time he generally gets a warning and a countdown, and for something like mess would get the chance to earn it back with cleaning.

The few days I have had to enforce no screens were distressing (8yo tantrums...) but it helps a lot with general behaviour and getting homework done.

Just to add we do the marvellous jar method for the four year old and it works well. It doesn’t stop him being violent but it doesn’t give him immediate consequences to hitting/throwing/kicking. He earned five marbles in his ‘bad pot’ this morning during a 10 minute tantrum. We do work hard to praise good behaviour so he’ll get a portion of those put back in his ‘good jar’ at the end of today.

You poor thing.
Start by putting a door lock on your room.
You need the one with the press release from inside so the children can't lock you inside.
Then try going heavy on rewarding good behaviour. I mean really play up any child that does something good.
Maybe keep a box of healthy snacks on your bed and let the child run in and get one.
Toddler sounds like they need a highchair.
So they are stuck in one place to eat.
Offer your eldest something for help.
If no one draws on walls this week, they get pocket money, kids like responsibilitys.

Sorry OP. We cross posted. Lots of good advice. I can see you're taking them out and getting fresh air etc. Definitely continue with the natural consequences to the bad behaviour.
Is your husband home? Can you divide and conquer? Toddler at the park with him, you and the eldest bake/make/watch a 'grown up' program while the baby naps?. What are the ages? I've missed one out I know. We've got 2/3 (step child) in a small small 2bed. But we're lucky. We have a huge garden and a kitchen table. It makes a massive difference. I've struggled in the past, so I take my hat off to you 😘

Have you asked your 8yos school for advice? They will know your dc and what works at school.

I have 3dc close in age. When they were younger it was sometimes really tough, and you do have to be strict and outdoors a lot!

BUT you also need a really good positive reward system. If they feel like they are in trouble all the time it's easy for them to just keep being naughty because they feel like it doesn't make any difference.

I would look at something like a marble jar. Choose certain things that they can have a reward for. Eg staying sat at the table during meals, being quiet while you are on the loo whatever you can think of that would make a difference to you. If they do it they can have a marble. When they have ten marbles they can swap them for a treat (something small but valuable to them, like choosing a film to watch)

I also think positive routine helps. As much time as you can spending time sat playing and chatting with them in the house. If they have your positive attention they're less likely to be climbing on doors.

You clearly care and they haven't always been like this. 100% you can turn this around.

If they climb the wardrobe, lock them in the boot of the car, and keep the key in your pocket.

That read like you were going to lock the kids in the boot of the car! 😮

I can see that that is tough, OP. What about the other idea of giving the 8yo more responsibilities, something to be proud of? If they're egging each other on, it might actually be helpful to divide and conquer to some small extent.

Obviously a limit to what can be done in a small flat on no money, but presumably you still need to cook. An 8yo could do quite a bit of basic stuff and might be encouraged to think of something as "his" thing, the thing nobody else does as well as he does. At this age it doesn't hurt to have them looking forward to greater and greater independence- it just needs to be very positive, rather than punitive.

They sound like they're beyond cooped up. 6 people in a 2 bedroom flat is not workable, you need to move. Your children need space, to themselves and from each other, and room to run around.

You also need to think about why none of your discipline is working. Are they disrespectful at school too? Is there any SEN?