To not feed DC the Father Christmas lie

[PeterRabitting]

Not looking for the MN angry responses of "let children be children for gods sake" etc etc but interested in hearing the intellectual views of any parents who've handled "Father Christmas" differently from the 'norm'. The reason is, I have a friend who has raised all her DC telling them there is no such thing as Santa from the outset. It has intrigued me a bit, as a mum of a baby. On the one hand part of me thinks that it's terribly sad and my friend's DC are missing out on the magic etc. But in the other hand her reasons do make some sense to me. She and her DH are atheists and so she argues that in the same way she tells her kids the science of life (eg she doesn't tell them there is such a thing as heaven) why would she fool them into thinking Father Christmas is real. She talks to her DC about FC as a belief / story that some people believe, in the same way that some people believe in different religions etc. She leaves it open for her DC to believe if they choose to, so she doesn't say it's "nonsense" but she just says some people believe it. She said her DC are critical thinkers and would question things like the scientific possibility of flying round the earth etc etc anyway.

She also says that her way encourages gratitude, mindfulness and an appreciation of the value of money because her DC know that their gifts come from mummy and daddy through love and hard work and do not magically appear / are not made by elves. My friend says that she installs a sense of magic into her DC through all the lovely family things they do and spending time together.

I'm uncertain but it intrigued me as I too am an atheist and if I'm not trying to persuade my child that heaven exists then why would I persuade them that Santa does? On the other hand... "let children be children"!

Does anyone on here "do Father Christmas" differently / not feed their DC this story?

They aren’t little for long. Let them have a sense of wonder over Christmas. God knows it’s all downhill after that
What a great attitude , enjoy being 5 because when you get to 12 it’s all crap and only going to get worse !

Also her children are critical thinkers 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I agree @LustigLustig , but if a child asks ‘ is Father Christmas real?’ What do you say?

My parents didn’t. Their reason was that I was adopted and could sniff out lies like a bloodhound, so they didn’t want the awkward ‘how can I believe this if you told me this’ questions. There was also the element of wanting to recognise people saved up to give gifts. We did other fun stuff and still read the stories/saw Santa as fun Christmas character, he just wasn’t seen as ‘real’. It didn’t stop me magical thinking about everything else, or hoping I might see Santa out the window. Mainly, I wanted to go to Narnia. You can tell a child something like Santa isn’t true, but it won’t stop them believing in magic totally - they’ll still have their developmental stage and their lovely magical moments. I think people just remember the excitement of their own childhoods and that’s why it tends to cause an uproar if someone doesn’t do that. Santa isn’t a needed part of Christmas unless you want him. We do him, as DH wanted that, but DS also knows that different countries have different stories and figures.

@Whatthebloodyell

I agree *@LustigLustig* , but if a child asks ‘ is Father Christmas real?’ What do you say?

We said "well how else do the gifts get here?" - obvs only works when they're very young or very gullible!

Yes, sorry, didn't mean you @Floralnomad, I meant the people getting rather shrill about non-believer children apparently having to be actively kept in check from 'bullying' or 'belittling' those who do. I reckon between one third and half of DS's class were either from European backgrounds with different Christmas traditions or from non-Christian backgrounds who didn't celebrate Christmas at all. The children appeared to negotiate all of this perfectly competently.

It sounds like that mix worked well. I don't have a problem, personally with children not believing/ families not doing santa for cultural or whatever reason but there are a minority of parents who smugly think that makes them better and don't help their kids learn the importance of respecting other's view and beliefs. In the same way, I taught my kids very young not to say 'god's not real' when around religious folk. We have our belief, but we don't have to force it on others. This is from personal experience. I have a friend who was very smug about her 'critical thinking' kids (who are on a par with everyone else really) and thought it was funny when her 6 year old (oldest in the class) announced there was no santa. When my son stopped believing very young, we made sure he knew that others still believed and it was absolutely not his job to disillusion them.

We do this for very similar reason to op. We never confirmed nor denied the existence-sounds wanky but has worked for us.

There’s a gaping middle ground on this where a heck of a lot of parents sit. You don’t have to intellectualise it. I never pushed FC, never ahem “lied” about it, just accepted it as a bit of childlike fun my son could take as far as he wanted, or not be interested at all, up to him. He very gradually, and at a young age, accepted it was/is just a fun story for what he would now call “little ones”. It’s not a big political decision unless you like waving flags.

Background information
I come from a different country, and Father Christmas is very much seen as something for toddlers. Around 5-6 years most kids have figured out that it can’t be true, and any child who hasn’t figured it out would be considered to be a bit young for their age/easy to mislead.

For my kids, growing up in the UK, we kept it up, but not in their faces. Unsurprisingly the oldest fogured out at around 5 that Father Christmas made no sense (ironically after a Christmas party with a visit to a grotto).
Christmas is still magical for us, and a lot less stressful than for his classmates parents who are thinking more and more complicated stories to satisfy their kid’s curiosity and critical thinking.
From my personal point of view, it seems to mainly benefit the parents, the kids go along to please their parents or because they are concerned they won’t get presents. Each to their own, but I’m quite happy that our Christmas period is a lot less stressful.

Boring! Also, you'll be doing yourself out of the phrase "FC won't come if you don't tidy up/be nice to your sibling/eat your greens" from at least the last week of November. 😂

(I'm typing this as my DH is exchanging £1 for a brown envelope containing our 9 year olds tooth).

@MsQueenInTheNorth

Has anyone’s child ever asked why Father Christmas doesn’t bring things to people who don’t have any money? I asked my mum that when I was about 5 or 6, but I don’t remember her response so I don’t know how she wriggled out of that one.

It’s the only thing that would put me off telling my future children that FC is real, but maybe it didn’t bother me that much if I don’t remember the response. I just don’t want to encourage a narrative where FC brings toys to the ‘good’ children in the world, who are incidentally also the wealthy children in the world.

Maybe that sounds really pretentious though

My Grandparents told me that Santa makes and delivers the toys, but that parents or grandparents (I lived with my GPs) have to pay for the supplies to make the toys.

It broke their heart to have to add a caveat to the story, but they had just been landed with four children. I was the youngest and only 7 so was the only one that still believed. They had to do something to still give me a bit of the magic, but to keep me realistic because I wanted a My Little Pony Castle as well as Kickers shoes and a red coat. There was no way they could afford it all.

I've done similar with my children so that they've always understood that some children don't get a lot for Christmas. Both to make sure they appreciate what they get (because I do go OTT sometimes because of my childhood) and to make sure they are mindful of other children around them.

@missyB1

Yawn.... bet it’s laugh a minute in their house.

^ This

Your friends sound like hard work OP.

I never understand parents who do this. Why have kids if you're going to ensure that their Christmases will never be as magical and fun as everyone elses?

I've just always been vague about it, I say 'who knows'. I used the phrase 'story of christmas'. They knew from a young age that different countries had different stories, so by seven or eight they would cotton on anyway.

But I am fully into Christmas, I make masses of effort.

I think one of the advantages of the vague approach is the magic never goes, because it is built on what happens not on the story.

I did the tooth fairy too, but again was vague.

As an aside, the idea of an elf that comes alive and watches if children are good or bad is, imo, sinister/grotesque, like something from Grimm's fairlytales. I can not get my head round that at all. If something like that really lived in my house I'd want to trap it! I wouldnt bloody side with Rumplestiltskin against my own children.

@Crystal87 plenty of magic and fun here, and a lot less stress. Each to their own, but assuming your way is the only and best way is never ever a good idea.

@Crystal87

I never understand parents who do this. Why have kids if you're going to ensure that their Christmases will never be as magical and fun as everyone elses?

Bit extreme

To me Christmas is a feeling of something very special. It can be done in many different ways. The words I most hope to capture with Christmas are specialness, tradition, celebration, anticipation, excitement.

The most prolific and most irritating word about Christmas in these threads we have every year is always ‘magic’.

Too often it’s about people spending money they can’t afford on shit they and their kids don’t need.

Never did Father Christmas with any of our children. Don’t remember it causing any issues, I don’t remember what I believed as a child but kids mainly love getting stuff and being able to eat loads of sweets. That is what magic is to a young child, but there seems to be a consensus if you don’t go in for the whole thing you have a family of joy-sucking fun phobes.

My parents didn't ever try to do the FC thing when I was a child, and I can clearly remember starting school when I was 5 and feeling very sorry for the other children who believed in FC that their parents lied to them. I also thought it was completely obvious that he didn't exist, because around December you'd see multiple FC in different grottoes around town, it made no sense about flying that fast around the world, and anyway where I grew up we had Sinterklaas as well as FC going on depending on which shops you went to.

I still loved Christmas, but from a very early age I knew it was about being thoughtful and giving gifts as well as your loved ones being thoughtful and giving you gifts too.

My DC don't believe in FC. I never made an effort to tell them it wasn't real, but they have never questioned that it's a made up story and seem perfectly happy with knowing that. And they have never told a friend that FC isn't real.

Unfortunately we did have a tooth fairy mishap when my 5 yo accidentally let slip to a friend of my 11 yo that there wasn't a tooth fairy. I guess it had never occurred to them that someone so old and well-versed in losing teeth wouldn't know.

I've never lied to my children and I'm not about to start with Father Christmas. I haven't told them but when they ask me a direct question I will tell them. I don't take them to visit Father Christmas as it's too expensive with three kids. I did get a bit annoyed when school told the children the alarm system were Santa cams. 🤷🏼‍♀️ I thought that was pushing it a bit too far.

I found out at four as my mum was a bit noisy, it has never ruined Christmas for me. It's my favourite time of year and we just joined in the game that everyone was playing.

She isn't being factual at all, Father Christmas isn't a belief like religion I find that offensive. Second of all as a child and also my child will know exactly who gave them which Christmas gifts. As a child for me Father Christmas mearly transported the gifts my family had bought me. In our household did focus on Christmas being the birth of Jesus. (though the priest every Christmas did ask all the children if Santa had came)
She sounds like she's trying to be different and superior but that's just my opinion.
Do what you feel OP but as a child Father Christmas wasn't a massive part of Christmas for me.

Bizarre to compare Father Christmas to religion, it’s not true to say “some people believe...” because no adults do, so even with all her ‘honesty’ she’s being misleading.
My dcs heard a woman in a shop say “I’ll get these for the kids stockings” then she looked down at them and said “ooops”. I hope your friend is not like that woman!

I was never keen but went along with the whole Santa thing because of pressure from family and friends. It is a lot of fun. My DC loved putting out the drinks/reindeer snacks etc and waking up to see if "he has been".
Eldest was really really sad when he learnt the truth especially because grown ups had lied to him. He felt the loss of trust badly for a while. He still looks forward to Christmas now.

Last year it was noticed that a couple of friends didn't get as much from Santa. I know a few families at school are having a very tough year this year. Something I will bear in mind with Santa presents.

I don't think anyone is saying santa is like a religion. The similarity is in differing beliefs. No adult believes santa is real but many believe it is an OK, indeed good, fantasy for children. That's the belief and in the same way that we should respect differing religious beliefs, we should respect differing other beliefs which are important to people. We don't have to tell people we think their beliefs are wrong every time the topic comes up - whatever the belief.

@Crystal87

I never understand parents who do this. Why have kids if you're going to ensure that their Christmases will never be as magical and fun as everyone elses?

Seriously this has got to be one of the most stupid posts ever written .