Uni students... risking the wrath of mn..

[redgin]

Firstly, I have had 2 children go through uni and out the other side and I fully understand the emotional and financial aspects.

But

They leave home, expect to be treated as adults (rightly) and have their first taste of independence. After a summer debating the risks of going to uni this year in the middle of a pandemic why are they surprised they have to isolate in their rented accommodation like anyone else? That they have to follow the rules like the rest of the law abiding?

IMO they chose to go, they couldn't have expected normal, so get on with it.

It's also your job to engage with students who say/ think they already know it all. It's your job to establish and take an interest in what they do and don't know and not to make assumptions.

@nostaples - am happy to agree to disagree when it comes to making what you are learning explicit or implicit.......there are different models/schools of thought on this.

and i totally agree with you that some academics prefer research but teaching is not prioritized when it comes to promotions, research is so you can hardly blame them

@zurich09 fair enough. And I think that's more of what I'm getting at: the conflicting interests in HE. Teaching or research? Are students students or customers? Are they doing a degree for the sake of learning or to get a job? Home or away? Full time or part time?

@nostaples - most learn cos they need a piece of paper to get a job...not cos they want to learn.

I think the current situation exposes those tensions more than ever.

@nostaples - yes but take that to the government that set up the system...academics are just pawns trying to do our best

As a PP has pointed out, no adult would be happy to be trapped in a flatshare with maybe a dozen people who they have only just met. They weren't signing up for Big Brother but for some, that's basically what it's turned out to be!

We all knew that we'd more than likely get a second wave of Covid over the winter but most people were expecting it in October thru Feb. It's come sooner than expected, the freshers have only just started (some literally a matter of a day or two before lockdowns began) and don't have any kind of support network if they do need to isolate and haven't even had time to allay in supplies of food. Even a month down the line, they might well have a few friends living in other blocks who would be able to help with washing and food supply.

@zurich09 mmm but how has it become accepted that it is necessary without the debate? I think HE would struggle to justify its purpose honestly to kids in the current situation. Because I'm guessing you wouldn't say that to the kids? But equally you accept/ assume that that's their motivation. I think it needs a rethink and more honesty and HE should be able to justify itself on all sorts of grounds but it really needs clarity on how and why to do this.

When it was only open to an elite who went to university because it's what you did that was one thing. But if you're taking huge amounts of money from a working class kid, they need to know why and how it will benefit them.

@nostaples - i went on every march against the fees, voted for every party that was against the fees etc..............we didnt have a debate because the country didnt care. most academics wished there had been a debate but were met with radio silence

@zurich09 but we are where we are. I am a lefty but accept that to widen participation there needed to be fees. But the sense that university is for an elite and doesn't need to think about what or whom it is for is sort of continuing (beyond the glossy posters of smiling students). I interpret your comment about not needing to make learning explicit in that way.

@nostaples - fees do not benefit wc kids - its impoverishes them and saddles them with debt that they will never repay so they cant compete against their more affluent colleagues.

but again - what would you like me to do about it

But didn't you know, "uni" is supposed to be all about the experience?

and every academic would happily have that conversation................but no one is interested

in the same way that doctors will tell you about the NHS but no one is listening, teachers about schools, care staff about nursing homes........

the public sector would all love to have that conversation

@zurich09 I don't agree with that. Tuition fees are just another tax but if you don't earn a decent wage you'll never pay it or never pay it back.

And I don't think you or lecturers like you can change the system but equally I don't think you can pretend the current system is not in operation and that university should continue the way it always has.

As a teacher, my first responsibility is to my students. I can't change the public exams system but I can shape the curriculum to an extent and make sure students are as prepared for the exams as they can be and learn as much as they can about my subject.

working class kids need university more than any other group. Universities are vital for social mobility. But universities don't accept this responsibility as much as they should and are not changing fast enough.

Widening participation in terms of recruitment is only a small part of it. They need to genuinely believe in what they're offering and offer more.

Students (and school pupils) are more pragmatic and goal oriented than they ever were. Now you can bang on about the good old days when kids went to university for the love of learning, which I'm not sure they ever did, or you can actually accept that they deserve to have a say in what and how they're learning.

@nostaples

working class kids need university more than any other group. Universities are vital for social mobility. But universities don't accept this responsibility as much as they should and are not changing fast enough.

Widening participation in terms of recruitment is only a small part of it. They need to genuinely believe in what they're offering and offer more.

Universities can't fix the social immobility problem. WP is fine but is tinkering round the edges.

@RepeatSwan they're just part of the jigsaw.

Some of them are trapped in a small room with a window that doesn’t open more than a few inches. Not allowed outside for exercise. Can’t meet even flatmates in the kitchen.

Kids have already self selected (and will be either privileged or been able to take advantage of opportunities) by that point. But university IS the way up and out for many.

students need unis not fees.loans penalise poor students when it comes to mortgage applications etc.

am all for great participation, my argument is that their wider participation has not taken place as a result....social mobility in the UK has gone backwards

and unis have totally adjusted....number of 1st class degrees (and 2.1)are through the roof

[quote nostaples]@RepeatSwan they're just part of the jigsaw.[/quote]
I think they are a very small part.

[quote nostaples]@SueEllenMishke I am a teacher who speaks to very many ex students now at university each year and I have a child at university and I have friends who teach at university. I am speaking about real experiences, not assumptions.[/quote]
But do you work at a university? Have you ever worked at a university?

I've worked with school and teachers but I don't presume to know their job as well as they do or how specific policies and strategies have been implemented.